Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
We invite you to join us as we talk about the world of leadership during times of complexity.
Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S3: E13 From Cult Classics to Cutting Edge Tactics: A Look at the Urgent-Important Matrix
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Cracking the code of productivity isn't just about hard work—it's about smart work. That's why this episode doesn't just entertain; it enlightens, as we explore the Eisenhower Principle and the Urgent-Important Matrix.
This timeless tool's relevance in today's hustle culture offers a practical example to help you tackle the daily grind. We'll cover President Eisenhower's famous quote: "What's important is seldom urgent, and what's urgent is seldom important" and connect it to a famous 2x2 matrix of importance and urgency that you'll want saved on your phone and printed next to your desk.
Whether you're a boardroom warrior or a domestic deity, understanding what's urgent, what's important, what's a mix of both, and what's neither could well be your ticket to efficiency nirvana.
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80s Movie Quote Challenge With Greg
Speaker 1You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark , brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units . Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity . Now for your hosts , Greg and Mark .
Speaker 2Hello there Dr Mark Hoffman .
Speaker 3Howdy , howdy how .
Speaker 1Howdy , how . Oh , that's funny .
Speaker 2Oh , Gregory , Gregory , Gregory . Hey , I am seven of eight on the movie challenge , you are seven of eight Not to remind you . You are seven of eight . You're putting me to shame . I'm like seven and a half .
Speaker 3Actually , no , it's a full seven , because I definitely didn't recognize that line , but I knew the movie at least .
Speaker 2You're going to be walking around this office proud as a peacock .
Speaker 3I'm not going to say through that door , you're not . I know my head won't fit through the door .
Speaker 2Well , you almost bump your head when you go through doorway .
Speaker 3It is true , I definitely have smashed my forehead quite a bit .
Speaker 2You have four more for me , I have four more . So this for listeners who haven't heard the previous two episodes . I threw the gauntlet back down and we're doing the 80s movie quote challenge with Dr Mark Hoffman , aka Hasselhoff . Here we go . That maniac was our mailman .
Speaker 3The maniac was our mailman . So I'm thinking Funny Farm , right Dude , that's it .
Speaker 2Is it really ? Yeah , that's Funny Farm .
Speaker 3I love you trying to get that , yeah , he would go through .
Speaker 2And he goes . Who was that ? That maniac was our mailman . It was the wife .
Speaker 3Yeah , so yeah , I love that movie so good . I love that movie and I love how , in the end , she's the one who becomes the author .
Speaker 2Yeah , she becomes the author . Yeah , and I like when they're out of food and they're just sitting there and all he hears is his wife is chewing an apple .
Speaker 3The last apple . He's got the new record for lamb fries .
Speaker 2A new world record .
Speaker 3All right , go ahead .
Speaker 2Okay , here's the next one . That's why they call them crushes . If they were easy , they would call them something else 16 candles .
Speaker 3I'm telling you , yes , you've got it , you've got it yeah .
Speaker 2Go ahead . Yeah , that was Jim Baker , molly Ringwald's father who forgot her birthday . He did . Okay , all right . Her 16th birthday to be exact .
Speaker 3I wonder if it's somebody's birthday . Recently it was the big four , eight , the big four , eight , yeah , looking good , thank you , don't look a day over 50 .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's the hairline , maybe , I don't know , looking good . Yeah , thank you , I mean .
Speaker 3I appreciate that I did not wish you a happy birthday , because I didn't even . It wasn't even my radar . That was your birthday . That's a major party . Do you know where my birthday is ? No so then it's okay .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't .
Speaker 3We'll exchange birthday . I think it's what we're doing . I'm January 28th .
Speaker 2Can I share the story about my birthday ? Yeah , january 28th , so uh . So I'm going to tell you about my 10th birthday , when I turned 10 .
Speaker 2It was 19 . I believe this is correct with the date . It was turning 10 , 1986 and I was going to Rice Elementary and Mountaintop , pa , at Crestwood School District and anytime there was a big event they would call us down to the LGI large group instruction room . Yeah , and my mom was famous for making chocolate chip cookies like the best , the best . So she made cookies . She would always do it for our birthday , so I brought them in in the morning . I'm all proud of them . I'm thinking we're going down to the LGI to celebrate my birthday . Of course you are . So we went in and it was the day of the Challenger exploding . Oh geez , it was January 28th 1986 .
Speaker 3That's heavy .
Speaker 2So I met , you know it was a big deal .
Speaker 3We were all watching it .
Speaker 2It was . It was a tough one because especially because there was a teacher there .
Speaker 3Chris McCullough and we were all watching it . Yeah , it was a big deal . Teacher in space .
Speaker 2Yeah , it really was . It really was , but that's , you'll never forget my birthday now .
Speaker 3We will never forget , yeah , my birthday May 8th .
Speaker 2I didn't mean to mean to bring us down there , but that's what happened .
Speaker 3See , I told you when's my birthday .
Speaker 2You didn't say , I just did . What'd you say ? May 8th , it already goes . We have to talk about is May 8th May 8th . So three days after Cinco de Mayo .
Speaker 3Cinco de Mayo .
Speaker 2I had . That's how I remember things .
Speaker 3Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independence Day .
Speaker 2What is it ?
Speaker 3Everyone thinks it is . It's the day that the the Mexican army defeated the French , kicked them out of their country . It celebrates a major win .
Speaker 2Oh .
Speaker 3So there you go . But everybody thinks it's , it's not their fourth of July All right , let's keep going .
Speaker 2Okay , things that make you go , hmm , all right . So look up here , look up here , look up here .
Speaker 3Look up here , look up here , look up here . I don't know it , but so I'll take that as a loss . Okay , now give me some hints , if I can get it .
Speaker 2I'm going to say it differently this time . Look up here . Look up here . Look up here . Does that help ? No , Look up here , Steve Martin , up in the tree as they're breaking in over a wall and he's saying he's he's queuing his other fellow friend to go up over . I think it was Martin Short .
Speaker 3Oh , is this the three amigos ? It's the three amigos . Oh my God .
Speaker 2That's where they're breaking in , in the very beginning El guapo , el guapo .
Speaker 3Blue shadows .
Speaker 2Oh my little buttercup has a sweetest smile .
Speaker 3I know the movie . I did not get that quote Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , so the very last one . I don't know if you're going to get this one Back off , man , I'm a scientist .
Speaker 3Back off , man , I'm a scientist . Back off , it's not the fly , is it ?
Speaker 2It's not the fly , I don't know Go ahead .
Speaker 3Give me more hints , hints . That's a loss .
Speaker 2OK , all right , so you're two for four on this . Ok , so give me some hints . It has to do with science , weird science . It's not weird science . That would have been good , that would have been good , but it has to do with three individuals again . Just like the three amigos , but they help to save a city from .
Speaker 3Oh , Ghostbusters yeah .
Speaker 2There you go , got it , there you go . That was Peter Volkman , venkman , venkman . See , you know this , you know these . How do you know their names , their character names ?
Speaker 3I just missed the quotes , but I know the names .
Speaker 2Dr Peter Venkman , aka Bill Murray . Bill Murray , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 3Phenomenal , phenomenal .
Speaker 2Murray , great humor .
Speaker 3I'm a little upset that I didn't get that one , but I but listen . The three amigos and Ghostbusters are classics .
The Urgent vs Important Matrix
Speaker 3Full credit to you for picking quotes .
Speaker 1I didn't recognize it . It wasn't small wonder .
Speaker 2She's a small wonder .
Speaker 1That song haunts me now because everybody's showing me what it is , of course .
Speaker 2Hey Coons , check out this theme song .
Speaker 3I feel like I'm a little redone because I at least know these movies Go home . You did very well , thank you , and I appreciate the challenge yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , you're welcome , you're welcome .
Speaker 3And so I missed the .
Speaker 2The pleasure was all yours , sure was all mine .
Speaker 3Let's talk a little bit about a leadership dynamic that everyone feels , regardless of the position they're in , and I think we feel it at home and at work , and it goes by many names , but some people know it as the Eisenhower principle or the urgency matrix , the urgent versus important matrix . So if I were to describe it to you , dr Coons , I would think of a two by two matrix , which means you know , sort of four squares , yes , all in a almost , you know , like a , like a two by two graph , if you will .
Speaker 3And in the X axis , going along the bottom , you've got your level of urgency . So on the left hand side you've got urgent , on the right hand side you've got not urgent . And then the the Y axis is important . So the bottom half is not important and the top half is very important or important . So , depending on where you are on this matrix , you have four choices Something could be unimportant and not urgent , or , conversely , it could be very important and urgent , or the other two combinations , right , not important but urgent and not urgent but important .
Speaker 1Okay , All right , so you can Google this thing .
Speaker 3If that doesn't make , if my explanation didn't do it justice , you can just simply put in the um , the urgent , important matrix or the Eisenhower principle . Why is this important ? It's very important . We are faced with challenges , decisions , junctures , decision points all day long , at home and at work , and oftentimes we don't know how to prioritize .
Speaker 2Correct .
Speaker 3Right . And so a heuristic like this , a tool like this , a matrix like this , it's a nice filter to run a problem , a dilemma or a situation through , to determine is this really urgent ? And if it is , I'm going to put it on the urgent side of the column . But is it really important ? No , it's not important . Or it is important or is this really important , All right . Well , how urgent is it ? It's a way to help you prioritize and evaluate your tasks . Have you ever used something like this ?
Speaker 2So I haven't actually used the visual , but I think it would be going through that exercise of actually using this matrix and writing down what the issue is and identifying on here would be very helpful . I also am looking at this and something I think many struggle with on the , there's the urgent , important and urgent , not important crises versus interruptions , because , as we all know , no matter what leadership position you're in , you're gonna have the crises .
Speaker 3And those are the urgent issues that are important .
Speaker 2Urgent issues that are important , but then you're also gonna have even more interruptions Right , which are urgent issues that are not important . You got it , you got it , so that resonates with me right . When I look at that , that definitely comes to mind .
Speaker 3Yeah , so hold that thought , because I wanna talk about how , where we're spending most of our time as leaders . Are you spending most of your time dealing with crises , interruptions , distractions , or goals and planning , which are the other two names of the other boxes we're gonna go around to each box . Okay , is that all right ? Okay , that's fine . I started off by saying that this is known as the urgent , important matrix . Also that it's known as the Eisenhower principle or the Eisenhower matrix . You can simply stick both of those in Google and you'll find lots of research . We happen to be referencing something from the CoachingToolsCompanycom . This isn't proprietary to them per se , but I wanna give them full credit for putting it together in a nice , easy to understand package . Why is it called the Eisenhower principle ?
Speaker 3He's often quoted he has a lot of quotes but Eisenhower , when he was president , when he was a general , he said what's important is seldom urgent and what is urgent is seldom important . He said what is important is seldom urgent and what is urgent is seldom important . And the reason why these are conflated together is because , of course , you know your two by twos high importance , low importance , high urgency , low urgency and then determining where the situation that you fall is in , you know , on the quadrant , and what do you do about it ? So , greg , to your point . Let's start at the top left box High urgency and low importance .
Speaker 2So urgent tasks . We stop what we're currently doing to work on the urgent task instead , so we can think of all these things . Obviously , emergencies . Right before we recorded this podcast , dr Hoffman was working with his staff on whether or not to do a fire drill . Obviously , fire drills , those types of things take precedent . It's an urgent matter .
Speaker 3But is it an urgent matter to do the drill or is that under the goals and planning of important but not urgent ?
Speaker 2So I see it almost in the middle .
Speaker 3Yeah right , like in other words , it's gonna stop whatever's going on . Sure , I think the fire alarm going off is definitely urgent and important .
Speaker 2Yes , planning the drill is important , but not urgent and that would go over in the goals and planning side .
Speaker 3Exactly so our team had it planned .
Speaker 2They were ready to go .
Speaker 3They were all prepared . Kudos to my safety and security team , Right . And then the first one . People hear it , they know okay , high urgency , high importance , Planning the drills and making sure that we meet the law and the requirements that every month we do . One High importance , but low urgency , right .
Speaker 3Because they have 12 months to plan that out , and if they do it right , then there's no urgency in implementing it every month . If they do it wrong or they don't do it , then there's a lot of urgency , because then on the 31st day of the month , at the 28th day of the month , we're going . We never did our drill .
Speaker 2Yep right as urgent Right , so that we just talked about important , urgent important and then non-urgent important . So , urgent important being some kind of crisis , of an actual emergency , non-urgent important being the planning .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2The planning that's involved setting goals , progress monitoring , all those kinds of things .
Speaker 3Yeah , there's another matrix that you can Google on top of this , and other thought leaders have put four words with these quadrants . So , in the high importance , high urgent crises box , do so . If something is presented , do it right , right . So if it's not important but urgent , delegate Right . If it's important but not urgent , decide on when you'll do it . So do , delegate , decide . And then , if it's not important and not urgent , delete .
Speaker 2I like it .
Speaker 3So that's the action . So , in other words , you go through this analysis of determining whether something's important or urgent , you evaluate whether it's a crisis in an interruption , a distraction or a goal , and then you decide whether you're going to do delegate , delete or decide on when to do it later . I like this because this ties into the 24 seven access that we now have to our work and therefore the 24 seven access that work has on us . When our parents left work , they didn't carry a smartphone or a laptop .
Speaker 2No no .
Speaker 3And so there was no way that work could really impose on them the way that it does in the 21st century , in 2024 and for the last 20 years , and so I wonder how much of our time as individuals is now consumed in this matrix and different boxes that our parents and previous generations weren't consumed in , because the urgency couldn't find you and the accessibility wasn't there , right .
Speaker 3And without accessibility , the urgency goes down . In other words , like you know , oh my gosh , I don't need to check the scene . How urgent really is it that I'm checking my email at 830 for my smartphone ?
Speaker 2So I got to tell you when I first started as a supervisor yeah , you know what they gave me Go ahead , there weren't cell phones .
Speaker 3Blackberry Pager Pager . I had a Pager yeah .
Speaker 2So I would . For those young listeners that we have there , what a Pager was is it's a little little box that you wear on your belt and someone . When they would call the Pager , it would just show you a number and then you needed to physically walk to a desk phone or available phone that's connected to the wall in some way through a wire and actually call back that number . So you didn't necessarily know who that number was . I'm actually recognized the number . So that's , that was my first supervision . I was doing that .
Speaker 3Right , and then you wondered yourself , like , how urgent really were those Pager calls that you were getting ? They really weren't . So I like this because it puts a . It puts a framework around our choice of time management and our choice of what we're dedicating our time to . Right , how important are the things that you're focusing on after hours ? How important are the things that you're focusing on during hours ? And then , conversely , and most importantly , you're in parallel . How urgent are they ? How urgent is it and how important is it for you to send that email at 9 30 at night ? How urgent or how important is it that you attend that event ? Right , it doesn't have to be negative . Right , it is important that you're visible . It is it , but is it urgent ?
Speaker 2You need to . What what I'm hearing here is you need to set some parameters for yourself to show you talk just your example about emails . You know saying to yourself I am not going to respond to emails after 9 pm unless it is urgent .
Speaker 3Yeah , and is it even important to be checking them after 9 30 at night , like how important ?
Speaker 2is it Cause they'll call otherwise if it's emergency or whatever it may be ?
Speaker 3Exactly , if it's , if it's truly urgent , if it's truly a crisis , they're going to find you and then you have to do it . Yeah , but how much of that is self-imposed distraction which is not important , not urgent , Just things that we're consuming our time with right and stay busy , that you should be deleting essentially from your life , but instead we're adding yeah , it's , this is .
Speaker 2This really does get you thinking and I like the visual mark . You know going through this . So let's talk about quickly the um , the not important urgent and not important non-urgent .
Speaker 3So not important and not urgent , yep .
Speaker 2Okay , so okay , let's go there . Not important , the non urgent , not important . That puts us there with what we call distractions , correct , and what you had on there was a word , the word delete , delete . Yeah , so let's just , let's think about what's an example of a distraction .
Speaker 3Well , I would say a non urgent , non important distraction would be if you have a stick with email just to keep it essential , all right , that's perfect .
Speaker 3I turned off email notifications on my phone years ago , but let's say that I have email notifications still on my phone . Let's say that every time I work account gets an email , my phone buzzes , it flashes and it makes a sound . Okay , I know a lot of people that still have that . I'm not shaming you if you do , it's just not the way I choose to run my phone . Okay , let's say it's 930 at night , sick with the same example , and your phone buzzes , rings or sounds and flashes indicating that you have an email . Okay , so now I'm going to take out my phone , I'm going to open it up and it's a vendor generic email . Dear client , we'd like you to consider buying a subscription to this new magazine
The Importance of Prioritizing Tasks
Speaker 3. Right , how important and urgent was it ? Not at all .
Speaker 3Not at all Right , delete what did you say to yourself Well , was it even worth me looking at it ? What did it distract me from and take me away from ? What did it ? What did it take me from ? Nothing . That's why they call it distractions . These are the things that consume our time .
Speaker 3It reminds me sometimes in supervision when you talk to some of your staff and they say that they're overwhelmed or they're overworked , which is potentially a real issue that has to be solved . One of the first things that I see our HR team do in the various organizations that I've worked in is ask the person to track their time and to give an analysis over a two week period of how they're spending their day , in an effort to help their supervisor evaluate what tasks are actually being accomplished and tackled by these individuals , and in some cases you'll find that the employee is completely right the amount of work that's not a distraction or that's not an interruption , or that it's too overwhelming for one FTE . You need more people to do it , but oftentimes you find that the person is spending their day dealing with distractions or interruptions , and so maybe you need to change where they work , you change their accessibility , so that they can get to the real important work of planning and handling crises .
Speaker 2From a human services point of view , that's a total waste of human resources .
Speaker 3Even if you're running a for-profit company .
Speaker 2I think you want to maximize your profit , right ? You definitely want to maximize that .
Speaker 3Yeah , and so I like this idea of people evaluating where they're spending their time and where they're putting their human resource if you will , their own human resource .
Speaker 2I wonder if it would be a good exercise to actually use this quadrant , go through and then actually mark each task that you do during the day and rate it with you know , identify which area of the quadrant it's in .
Speaker 3Yeah , just to pick on email a little bit more . One of the simple things that folks do is they have decided to turn off or to close the outlook or the Apple Mail , their email client on their desktop , and they'll say that from the hour of 9 to 10 o'clock I'll look at my email and from 3 to 4 o'clock I'll look at my email right . As opposed to it being on all day and having the notifications going off , and then you're becoming distracted and oftentimes you're finding things that you should just be deleting .
Speaker 2Right or you respond too quick . Sometimes it affects you this way . You respond too quickly where that person really should have found it out on their own and gone through the exercise and learned from it . Sometimes you're taking that learning experience away from them when you agree .
Speaker 3Totally . And if you just think about the precious time that you have on a work day or in your life , and if you were to start evaluating the amount of time that you have and the tasks that you choose to accomplish with that time , I bet we'd find that , ourselves included , we spend a lot of time in that not urgent , not important category , because some of us are seeking distractions from doing the important work of planning and setting goals , and when you're not able to plan or set goals , then you often find yourself dealing with crises .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I will take a self-fulfilling prophecy . So here's a question how many , how many people do you think out there , leaders ? They may view what's really a not important urgent thing for an important urgent type of a task .
Speaker 3Yeah , and I guess if there's something that's urgent and important and you're treating it as non-important , or unimportant and non-urgent , the other way around .
Speaker 2Yeah , flip side .
Speaker 3Oh no , I thought that's what you're saying . But , if you've confused , if you've got the opposite end of the spectrum .
Speaker 2Oh , I see where you're going , yep .
Speaker 3If something is urgent and important and you're treating it as non-urgent , non-important , I would imagine there would be catastrophic consequences if you do that enough or if you do it at the wrong time . That's right If a trash can's on fire and you say oh , that's not important , that's not urgent , You're going to lose your whole house .
Speaker 3You're going to right yeah , to use the obvious example as opposed to oh my gosh , I don't have a fire extinguisher anywhere to put it up because I didn't do the important planning . You know , buying the fire extinguisher is not urgent , but it's important . You better decide when you're going to buy it so you have it , so that when the crisis arises , you have it .
Speaker 2I just bought a fire extinguisher . Yeah , it's important to have right ? I was just thinking about it . I think it's like the , I don't know . I felt like a good father doing it , but you know , I just you start thinking about that , especially during the winter when your heat's going all the time .
Speaker 3Of course .
Speaker 2And you just never know in the kitchen that you could have a kitchen fire .
Speaker 3You know , I learned in a tip . Actually we had a fire safety . We were all fire extinguisher , fire extinguisher certified here . Put one in your bedroom so that if there's a fire in your house at night when you get out of your bed you have access to the fire extinguisher , as opposed to running through the fire to get it in the kitchen . Great point , you know , it was like it sounds so obvious . You know where I put it right In the kitchen , probably under the sink .
Speaker 2Under the sink .
Speaker 3Of course that's where everybody has it , but if the kitchen's on fire you might not be able to get to it .
Speaker 2And I actually got the easy one . It's just a spray , it's not a . You don't have to pull a key . They make them really easy now .
Speaker 3So , anyway , I thought that was a great tip . Put it next to your bed and that way you have it . If you need to fight the fire to get out of your house , you have it . You don't have to fight the fire , the extinguisher , to fight the fire .
Speaker 2It's these simple things in life . You just , you just probably saved me right there . I hope not .
Speaker 3My house burned down in 1986 to the ground .
Speaker 2You know what ? You told me ? That maybe , like a year ago , I had never known that prior .
Speaker 3Yeah , my parents were amazing through the whole process .
Speaker 1And if not , in that .
Speaker 3I don't have any trauma from it , I think because the way my family responded but literally lost the whole house .
Speaker 2So very talk about resiliency , Resiliency the community came together .
Speaker 3My parents were amazing . My older siblings were amazing . My grandparents , my aunts , my uncles , my neighbors , my friends , yeah where did you stay ? We stayed with my grandparents for the first couple of weeks and then we went into like a rental town home , nice , and my mom drove me to school every day . It was a different district , but because we were quote homeless , we could go to my home school . How about that ? And I took a long time for them to rebuild the house , but you ?
Speaker 2just think of those things and like my God , my parents , they could have reacted . They could have reacted a whole different way .
Speaker 3Well , sure , and in the moment I'm in second grade , I had no idea what my parents were dealing with . I mean , I knew we lost our house , but I'm just a little kid , right Like . Only as an adult with children do I realize what stress that mother must have put on my parents . Oh yeah , oh yeah .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 3So that is the urgent , important matrix . Yes , it's paralleled with the Eisenhower matrix or the Eisenhower principle , and then overlaid on top of that , we put the do , delegate , delete or decide when to do matrix as well . So three leadership principles packaged into one . Again , we took the premise of the urgent , important matrix from the coachingtoolscompanycom , though this is a tried and true leadership framework that you can find anywhere .
Speaker 2And I gotta tell you as one of the takeaways here , you did very well with that 80s movie trivia . There . You only missed . What do you miss ? Three Out of the fourth out of the 16 .
Speaker 3Yeah , I missed three and I knew the movies but I definitely didn't get the quotes .
Speaker 2So you missed three out of 12 . So it was you made nine out of 12 .
Speaker 3I'll take it .
Speaker 2Nine out of 12 , that's a good score .
Speaker 3Out . Listen , I'll take it , and people would have thought the fix was in if I got all 12 , right . Yeah , right . So Kudos to you for making
Naming Albums and Giving Gifts
Speaker 3some good movies . We gotta figure out . It's my turn to challenge you with something next . All right . Maybe I'll name an album and you name the band or something . That would be kind of cool . Yeah , cause I know what kind of music you like , so I would make it a little bit more difficult . I'm sure Though you know , in today's day , do you even know the names of albums ?
Speaker 3anymore , it's tough . Oh and by the way , I have a gift for you . I wanna get a photo of us with me handing you this gift . Maybe we'll use that as the image for this podcast .
Speaker 2Okay , that sounds great . Hey , all right , let's go take a picture .
Speaker 3I wanna give this gift to you and we'll talk about it in the next episode . All right , let's wrap it up .
Speaker 2Okay , listeners , in the meantime , let's make it a great day and let's innovate the USA .
Speaker 3Sultry . Yeah , sultry , sultry . This sounds a great food , wow Woo .
