Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
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Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S4: E10 Ten Tips to Managing Conflict
Have you ever considered that conflict could be more beneficial than detrimental? In this episode of Lead On with Greg and Mark, we uncover how effective communication can turn disagreements into opportunities for growth and collaboration. Inspired by the tips from National Liberty Museum, we share practical strategies such as listening more, talking less, and focusing on the issue at hand rather than personalizing disputes. Real-life examples demonstrate how these tactics can foster understanding and cooperation in both personal and professional environments.
Join us as we reveal the transformative power of swapping blame-oriented "you" statements for inclusive "we" statements. Reflect on the pressures of parenting and the importance of empathy and compromise in resolving conflicts. Gain timeless wisdom on how to gain perspective during heated moments, helping you see that today’s problems may not be as significant tomorrow. Plus, we invite you to contribute your experiences and insights, helping build a community focused on continuous dialogue and innovation. This episode is packed with valuable lessons to help you manage conflicts more effectively and build stronger, more resilient relationships.
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You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark, brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units. Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity. Now for your hosts, Greg and Mark hello, hello the hofmaster, how are you?
Speaker 2:buddy, buddy, g-money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you good, I'm doing great. We had a couple requests for folks to talk about conflict Conflict, okay.
Speaker 3:You know, it's funny, conflict comes up a lot and I've come to learn in my career that conflict isn't always a bad thing, right Right. Conflict can be very productive and constructive, particularly when it's facilitated or resolved in a way that allows for resolution and repair, and then perhaps in a way that allows for the organization or the individuals to move forward. Sometimes we hear the word conflict and we like run away. There's people who are definitely conflict avoidant right.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, and conflict is inevitable, right.
Speaker 3:If you put two people in a room, you're going to conflict.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. You can't agree on everything you know. Yeah, so it doesn't always have to be a negative thing and there is a negative connotation.
Speaker 3:Yeah to conflict yeah, and it's not necessarily the best thing either, right, but um, the national liberty museum, which is actually located in philadelphia, put these out, I don't know, 10, 15 ago, and they're not for conflict in the workplace, I think they're just for conflict in general. Right. So as we go through these things, you know, put them in the context of your workplace or your family life, right? So 10 ways to resolve conflict, as described many years ago by the national liberty museum in Philadelphia. Number one listen more, talk less.
Speaker 1:There's that old cliche, you got two ears and one mouth. That's right.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, it helps you understand the other person's point of view, which is also something we've talked about. This idea of empathy yes, not sympathy, but empathy the idea of figuring out what the perspective of the other person or people's are right, or is like what is not as an outsider, but actually, yeah, not as an outsider but actually, yeah, they all, like you know they call a mockingbird, walk a mile in another man's shoes right before you judge.
Speaker 3:So, listen more, talk less. So much conflict, I think, is people talking over each other, people speaking or listening to respond rather than to understand. Yeah, I don't know if you've ever been engaged in a situation where you're observing two people and they're not listening to each other, but they're talking at each other and you know they're not listening. This person's already thinking about what they're going to say next.
Speaker 2:Yes, they're not getting the other person's perspective. Sure, and also I've learned this too, you know, during my childhood especially, I know my dad would get upset. When he would get upset sometimes he always had a great point, but the yelling people would hear that right, you know, and my dad was an excellent leader or everything else but that piece. Sometimes he would get angry and then people only heard the anger. They shut down, they, they did.
Speaker 3:It's like the fight flight or freeze right, that's it. Someone's screaming at you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you're going to fight back and I've talked to leaders sometimes and they believe in the yelling. Yeah, or for you, yeah, and it's just, you're just, you're not getting to the heart of the matter, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, you want to talk about like trauma?
Speaker 2:and things right.
Speaker 3:Sometimes people are triggered by like people screaming oh yeah, especially unprofessionally at the workplace.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's the first Listen more, talk less. Second ask when you want something. So making demands only makes things worse, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, rather than saying I want you to do this, I'm going to ask you if you're willing to do it. People are more inclined. The research says if I need something from you and I don't mean like in a transactional sense, but let's say I need your help I could say, hey, greg, help me. Or I could say, hey, greg, help me. Or I can say, hey, greg, could you do me a favor? People love to do favors for other people. Ben Franklin said the best way to get indebted to someone else or someone to debt to you is actually ask them to do a favor for you.
Speaker 1:It's not to do a favor for them, it's to ask them to do a favor for you.
Speaker 3:There's something about our human psychology where we like to help other people.
Speaker 2:Do you know what people? Do you know what? I actually used that on the way here on a phone call, did you really? I asked Ben Ben Smith. I asked him, I said would you mind doing me a favor? Yeah, and I said I know you're very busy and he goes what can I do for you, greg? And it was my cheesy AI song. I needed it as a soundbite so we could work offline with it. And he's like, yeah, I'd love to do that for you. Yeah, good guy.
Speaker 3:Listener to the podcast Long time friend. Yes, greg, focus on the problem, not the person. It's not personal, right. Right. The only way to solve a disagreement is to focus on the issue, not the people engaged in discussing the issue. It's not about Greg Koons and Mark Hoffman. It's about whatever issue we're experiencing as individuals.
Speaker 2:Isn't that interesting, though Isn't it funny that adults have to have this written down. It is funny, right, but it's, but, it's, but it's true, but it's true.
Speaker 3:Well, if these things weren't true and if we didn't fail at them all the time, then the Liberty Center would be putting about the person and if somebody doesn't agree with the other person.
Speaker 2:now it becomes a personal thing. Yeah, why is that? Why does it have to be personal?
Speaker 3:Uh, it's uh, our reptilian brain, right? Yes, what do they call that? Ad hominem attacks, like when you know your argument is so poor that you result to not attacking the argument or supporting the argument, but attacking the person on the other side of the issue.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's like a default. I think people go into this human nature human nature. Um, not only a great Michael Jackson song. Yeah, all right. So, um, then, that was a Michael Jackson song.
Speaker 3:Human nature? I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know where I pulled that Was that like the like, the black and white days. Maybe it might've been man in the mirror, man.
Speaker 2:I think so. Yeah, all right. The next, always number four always deal with the problem at hand, never bring up old issues or resentments. Oh, people do this all the time. Oh, let let the old stuff go. Yeah, so you and I let it go.
Speaker 3:There was a movie that that was a I think I might have heard that song once or twice, yep let it go never bring up old issues or resentment yeah, I mean that's inevitable right, makes sense. So we're bickering about something, oh, but yeah, well, remember in 1986 and you know, siblings probably do that, spouses do it colleagues that have history do it right, oh yeah it's hard to let things go. It is if it's not resolved properly well, there you go.
Speaker 2:There wasn't proper closure no proper closure.
Speaker 3:What do you call that? Like restorative practices, that's at, restorative practices, yep um, or counseling or something like that yep, um greg. Uh, I'll do this one okay, go, go for it take responsibility for your part in the conflicts. Your view may not be completely right either. I love this one. I'm famous here for saying, uh, asking. When people come in with an issue, I always ask them always and what role did you play in this issue?
Speaker 3:yeah, I always ask them that because I've learned this a long time ago. You got to take responsibility and recognize that you're probably wrong too.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's probably a combination including you, correct, and you want to see what, where their stance was on it, what part they played?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if someone's not, reflective enough to be able to figure out what role they've played in the conflict, then they're probably not ready to discuss the conflict. Yes then they're probably not ready to discuss the conflict yes, right, right, yes I mean, it's very rarely is it one sided, especially at work, right yeah? Right, this isn't just like road rage stuff we're talking about here, right Like exactly we're talking like like where it's a passing moment in time. Like we're talking about deep relations relational stuff here. Right Every day.
Speaker 2:So what was your role in this? I always ask that question. I like that. It's good.
Speaker 3:And sometimes people are like we know you're going to ask us what role do we play in this issue, but it's like and they're probably saying it out loud and like oh, I am partly to blame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, so they're telling you yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable without blaming the other person. Blame never solves anything. Now, how many, mark Hoffman, how many conversations have you been in where somebody did something wrong and you're there in a meeting or whatever else? And this usually, though, happens when it's a one-on-one conversation and the blame starts to the fingers start to go. Well sure, blaming other people, the ship's going down. That ever happen to you.
Speaker 3:Well sure, blame and blaming other people, the ship's going down, you know, and that ever happened to you all the time and you know you got to refocus it to we, the we, we. You got to start using language like we. So when someone comes in and says you know, you, you, you or him, him, no-transcript is back to the fight flight or freeze again.
Speaker 3:It is. So I think that's the same thing here, like if, if resolving the issue or the conflict is the goal, as tempting and as fun as it might be to blame the other person and to say you and use y-o-u statements, you statements. Uh, the more effective approach, even if it doesn't feel as good on the inside, and that spiteful sense, is to use I statements and we statements. Uh, what's seven? Always talk things out. Never use physical force to express your anger. My god, I hope. I hope that's not something we need to spend a lot of time on?
Speaker 2:I? I hope not too. I mean, we, we've seen, we've seen somebody walks away and punches the wall, or we're not doing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no. And in our business, um, that's a, that's an automatic out here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Number eight choose your words carefully. Um, I've always told, uh, my colleagues, words matter. I know that sounds very simple and cliche, but words are important and, um, once a word is spoken, it cannot be taken back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even with an apology, you still said it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know it's funny Like we carry that with us.
Speaker 3:right Things that people have said to you or to me, or to about you or about me. You never forget those things, do you?
Speaker 2:No, you don't. No, you don't. And I was just thinking of a post I just had on LinkedIn. Yeah, and it was four things you can't take back.
Speaker 1:This is actually very fitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is fitting. So these four things the stone after it's thrown, the word after it's said, the occasion after it's missed and the time after it's gone yeah, I like that. That resonated with me going through and that's what we're talking about here. You say those words, you can't take them back, and people remember.
Speaker 3:You throw that rock, yeah yeah. Physics say it can only go one direction, right the direction it's thrown, that's it.
Speaker 2:I like that one too, about the moment or the occasion after it's passed, time after it's gone.
Speaker 3:Those are all good things for parents to hear when they're young. There's so many things I wish that I had done differently, as a parent, I mean, I think I am a good parent. But my point is like upon reflection you are a good parent. But you can always think like you know, like what are the things that you did or said or missed, or like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And when you see other people going through that it's like whoa, I don't remember. It's hard to remember, don't?
Speaker 3:you just want to go up to young parents now that you're older and just say it's okay that they're having a tantrum. Nobody here cares. The parents are freaking out because their kid's freaking out. I just want to go over and be like it's fine, Nobody's upset.
Speaker 2:I just thought of something. So, yeah, marie and I, when we went to disney, yeah, ian was one, it was our first child ian was one and uh, we uh got bumped from our flight. So they upgraded us to first class nice and ian was in one of those hyper mode. He would get hyper before, like when he was hired and he was, he was, uh, in the front and we were in first class going home and he's picking up that, that, those plastic window covers and going open, close open close open and you were probably freaking out as a parent like.
Speaker 1:Ian, stop, stop, stop.
Speaker 3:Meanwhile some older parent was probably like yeah, let them have fun yeah, my wife and. I talk about that all the time when we see young parents. We, we don't, because it's not our business, but we just say to ourselves someone needs to tell them that it's okay, or to let them have the ice cream cone Right, or, or, or. Or to let them look at their. You know what I mean. Yeah, because you realize, like who cares? It's fine.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but in the moment you don't feel that way as parents. It's very interesting.
Speaker 3:Number nine look for a solution that is agreeable to both parties. So this is about compromise. If one person isn't satisfied, it's not solved. One of my colleagues always says that you know a negotiation is successful if both parties leave unsatisfied.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, that's great.
Speaker 3:It means everybody's got to concede, like if it's a unilateral concessions on both sides, right, and if it's zero sum, I get everything and you get nothing, or nothing happens at all. Then the conflict is delayed right, right, it's, it's not resolved yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very good. And the last, number 10, step back and put the problem into perspective. Step back and put the problem into perspective. Step back and put the problem into perspective. A problem you may have today may not seem so bad tomorrow.
Speaker 3:My wife is wonderful at reminding me of this. When I have something going on. She'll say phrases or keywords from problems of careers past or positions past where. I thought it was like the end of the world. And when she says that to me, it's my trigger to say, oh I, I have been in this place before where I've been stressed and it was okay, right it it does get better and I it's for our listeners and I know you've all been there and you have this major problem and there's always a sense of urgency.
Speaker 2:We talk about sense of urgency but there's nothing wrong sometimes unless there's some imminent danger.
Speaker 3:In which case you're going to call 911 anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in that case anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is to sleep on it. Sleep on it and then the next morning you have a new outlook on whatever that issue is and, like Mark said, it might not be as bad as you thought or you might have experienced something in the past and it really just it wasn't.
Speaker 3:It was more of a minor issue that you were making a major issue yeah, and the other option there is that I agree with everything you said and I'll say maybe it is a major issue and maybe it will take a lot of work, but you'll get through it.
Speaker 2:Yes, you've done it before, you'll do it again right and you have people supporting you too, so, along the way, yeah all the things that know.
Speaker 3:Think about, in a past position you've had not your current position, but a past position where you had a sleepless night or sleepless week over an issue. And yet here you are, 10, 20 years later. You're fine A little less hair, but yeah.
Speaker 2:But you're fine, you got through it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely that problem that you had that day. In the context of today, probably not so bad, not bad at all. In the context of today probably not so bad, not bad at all, particularly when you put it in the context of is everybody healthy and happy at home?
Speaker 2:Right, and that's it. Right, that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, all right. So those are. According to the National Liberty Museum, this is something I've had hanging in my office for probably 18 years. Some of these things I pulled out, greg. These are things that I've just had for years. I think it's great. So this is from the National Liberty Museum. God knows if they even still have this as like one of their documents. This is pretty like a low-tech piece of paper I'm looking at, but it's listen more talk, less ask. When you want something, focus on the problem, not the person. Always deal with the problem at hand. Take responsibility for your part in the conflicts.
Speaker 2:Express your feelings without blaming the other person. Always talk things out, choose your words carefully, look for a solution that is agreeable to both parties, and step back and put the problem into perspective.
Speaker 3:So what do you say? We step back from this episode and wrap things up.
Speaker 2:Let's step back. So, listeners, we do appreciate your support. We appreciate your feedback too. Please reach out to us if you have any ideas for future podcasts or any input suggestions good, bad, or examples of ways that you've resolved or dealt with conflict or failed.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, the best of the lessons were we failed Right, that's it. I mean countless times I failed at handling conflict, right, yep, all right, let's wrap this up.
Speaker 2:In the meantime, let's make it a great day and let's innovate the usa.
