Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
We invite you to join us as we talk about the world of leadership during times of complexity.
Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S5:1 What Are Your 'Golden Rules' for Leading?
It's season 5!
Join us as we take a look at "50 Golden Rules for Leadership" currently making the rounds on social media.
We each pick 10 and chat about what our own lists might include.
If you're looking for a fast-paced conversation about leadership, this episode is for you!
Check out all episodes of Lead On with Greg & Mark on your favorite podcast platform!
You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark, brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units. Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity. Now for your hosts, greg and Mark. Hello, mark hoffman. How's it going today? All right, let me bring this down. Oh, I bring this down. It's good stuff. Now, what season is it? Cinco? Cinco Season, five, season five. Can you believe it? Can you believe you've been?
Speaker 2:putting up with me this whole time. No, sometimes I wonder how I do it.
Speaker 1:How do I do it?
Speaker 2:This started humbly with Vince and his team.
Speaker 1:A little project out in Capital Area out, out there, yeah what are we gonna say? I'm sorry, so I was gonna tell you, just like this is season five here. Yeah, god bless my wife okay because we just celebrated 25 years of marriage. It was unbelievable. I mean, I, what'd you do to celebrate? So, first of all, I had, I put a lot of preparation into a gift for so I, I looked into it. It's the silver anniversary for our listeners. Okay, 25, 25 is silver good information so I got her.
Speaker 1:We have three kids, as you know, of course, so I got her this beautiful necklace um, really well thought out um of three little birds on a on this necklace in silver right I love that you said it's what really thought, like complimenting yourself, I.
Speaker 2:I was absolutely it was totally.
Speaker 1:You're like I'm yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was just to promote the story.
Speaker 1:So far, but it gets better all right.
Speaker 2:So it's the 25th anniversary. Yes, silver, silver, you get a great necklace three little birds.
Speaker 1:Yes, so now it comes time, and you guys are into music and we're into music. So all the nice little thing nice resemblance with the three kids.
Speaker 2:Honestly. You know I was thinking of Marley when you talk about accomplishments and Marley Three little birds, everything's going to be all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that Was that intentional, that was not, but it actually works out. Okay, you can go home and tell her play that when you walk in with your speaker I should, all right, so sorry, sorry, you get her the necklace, so now it gets it's time for me to receive my present, so she goes out to the driveway and she brings in this huge present, um, like a car, yeah, okay, big box.
Speaker 1:So I pull the present out, it's luggage, and she goes honey, don't take this the wrong way, she wants you to move out, so but I I'm happy to say that there was a little locking thing on there that was silver. That's great. You know how they have locking on this. It's a Samsonite and it has a little locking.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great gift because you travel a lot for work.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it shows it's, it's you, it's like a. It has utility value yes, it sure does. Has utility value? Yes, it sure does. And when you're far away from home, you'll be thinking of her. I will, that's nice. Yeah, Congratulations on 25 years.
Speaker 1:Congratulations on two great gifts Yep and I made for the family that night. Steak on the grill and crab cakes is kind of a tradition.
Speaker 2:A little surf and turf.
Speaker 1:A little surf and turf.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it was nice Lake style.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And our song was Into the Mystic. I know we talked about that back from 1999 when we got married. A little Van Morrison, great song.
Speaker 2:I think when Koi was on, what was that like season three? Maybe we talk about the Zac Brown band's Into the Mystic with Free.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Free. It starts with Free and it goes Into the Mystic.
Speaker 2:And then they go back. I love that. I just think that sounds great, it's awesome, it's so great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we hit 22 years this summer.
Speaker 2:Oh, congrats, lisa and I, so we're a couple years behind you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now you're younger.
Speaker 2:You're a baby Much younger. I don't know what 22 was. I think we bought ourselves a Blackstone flat top grill, or that was the most recent thing we purchased. So we just said I guess that's the anniversary present that we're giving each other.
Speaker 1:It's good. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 2:We traveled. Actually we went on a little trip. Oh nice, a little extended weekend. You know it's funny that we talk about travel. Yes, the luggage of course, and then my little getaway to celebrate 22 years with my wife. You gave us a great list called 50 life rules and it's literally just someone's 50 golden rules for life this is the sense like this reminds me something you see on linkedin or social or facebook where it came from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's no attribution. So whoever wrote this, we don't know who you are, but we don't take credit for these things, but we appreciate it's called 50 golden rules for life yeah, and so I don't necessarily agree with all of these things.
Speaker 2:And if I, if I came up 50 rules, I definitely wouldn't include some of these. But this is somebody else's rules, right? That's the beauty of looking at this stuff. Yeah, because there's also stuff in here I wouldn't have thought of that I like. But I just want to jump in real quick because number 45.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I just have to make the connection. My friend Travel when you can. That's perfect. Huge, huge proponent of travel. That that's a great segue and so that's what we did yes and uh, to celebrate because it's an experience and it ties into the luggage right?
Speaker 1:yeah, it sure does. I think that's a great.
Speaker 2:It was a great segue there, but don't mind the pun no, but, and I like, I like traveling because you're out of your comfort zone. Yes, you're in a new place and so, like, the mornings feel different, the evenings feel different. The evenings feel different. Right, uh, your routine changes a little bit, but there's always the safety and security of knowing you get to go home that's, that's true and that's why I like it.
Speaker 1:My mother always would say that she said it's so nice to travel, it's even nicer to come home yeah, exactly, it's like a.
Speaker 2:it's like a reset for us, and we don't travel for extended periods of time. Typically we go for a couple nights and we find that after the third or fourth night we're ready to go home.
Speaker 1:And we got what?
Speaker 2:we needed. Now we've done the eight day trips and the ten day trips, and those are great too, but just where we are in our life, that three, four night trip.
Speaker 1:That's perfect. It's perfect for us.
Speaker 2:We're ready, we're ready after the third night and, like the fourth night's. Fine, but we're ready to go home. What's something you pulled off this list? Here's what I'm thinking, we'll alternate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead, so I'm just going to go through. We each selected five here. Mine is if they trust you a secret, keep it. And this resonated with me because we talk about that whole trust factor within our teams, right, and in our within leadership. It really is key. You need to know that you trust someone. Uh, trust is initially given. Um, when it's broken, it's very hard to rebuild.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I I thought that as a very wise one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. The other thing with that is if you're telling someone else's secret to a third party, it's probably a pretty safe assumption to that third party that you would also share whatever they tell you in confidence to somebody else. Right, that's right, yes, yes. Now obviously there's a little caveat you put on here with work. Right, there's no such thing as off the record at work. Someone tells you something thing sometimes you have to report it sometimes depending on who it is, and if you're a teacher, you never have secrets with kids.
Speaker 2:All that good stuff. I mean that all goes.
Speaker 1:Yes, that goes without saying all of it.
Speaker 2:But in personal relationships, right, like, someone's credibility to your point is based on whether or not they can keep their mouth closed. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's the same thing with gossip, right? Like? If someone's gossiping with you, yeah, probably good chance they're gossiping about you too with somebody else. That's a very good point I mean, have you had that experience point?
Speaker 1:yes, and it always gets back to you walk away and you're like oh yeah, I can wonder what they say when I'm not here well, exactly, or like it's not going to get back to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and it always does. Always the world's too small, especially in certain industries. Yeah, here's one. I just had some garlic hummus.
Speaker 1:I really did with some carrots.
Speaker 2:So you know which one I picked? Number eight Never turned down a peppermint pill, for the reasons are obvious, so I was like Greg, let's go get some coffee. Because I was like I have some garlic breath here. I've been eating a lot of hummus lately.
Speaker 1:And I got the hummus among us.
Speaker 2:There's hummus among us, but this one had garlic on it and I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be sitting in close. What's better than garlic breath? Coffee, garlic breath, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's a lot. It's nice to be here with you buddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so never turn it down. If someone offers you a piece of gum, they're probably not just being polite and generous. They probably are trying to communicate with you that breath stinks, that's exactly right. I love that you picked that one too. I did, I did, so I just selected another one. Do you get offered a lot of peppermint?
Speaker 1:pills. Well, I do, I do and I. It just all resonated. It just came back to me.
Speaker 2:So I always have gum. Is that why they're offering?
Speaker 1:me, those, someone and you're angry. Finish read it, delete it and rewrite the message. Yeah, I like that. I've been. I've done this and I regretted it. Not, not, not deleted it yeah, not deleted. I've, yes, and there have been times where I typed in and I deleted it, so both. But yeah, I have regretted. Anytime when you put it in writing, it's just, it's almost like an email. Anything else that's in writing.
Speaker 2:It's when I was a young supervisor. I didn't know better than to not communicate through email. I didn't know any better. Right, Email was relatively new in the workplace anyway, so we were trying to figure out what it was. And I remember I would have like difficult conversations with people as a young supervisor through email, or I would send them emails at night and and it was a long time ago and I was like what am I doing? I'm not saying they were nasty emails, I'm just saying but they could have been like maybe let's call them corrective or supervising. No, I learned very quickly that, like, the credibility and the trust isn't built through email.
Speaker 2:It's built through face-to-face conversations.
Speaker 1:It is so.
Speaker 2:I learned that lesson. I think a lot of people learn that lesson.
Speaker 1:I'm always amazed at the experienced leaders who don't learn that, that are still managing and correcting through email. It's, it's a huge issue because you're not at your best. No, uh, there's a lot to be said. Like you, like you just referenced of being in person, face to face, like we are now I, I how does it feel?
Speaker 2:sorry. How does it feel to get an email from your boss?
Speaker 1:that's like a tyrant I mean like, who wants that?
Speaker 2:no. Do you want to work for someone who's emailing you corrective feedback? No, do you want to work for someone who's like emailing you at 9, 30 at night or anything like?
Speaker 1:it's just like no right, so I don't want to do that either. I learned that a long time ago yeah, that's, it's good point.
Speaker 2:All right now at 10. This is the 10th one for anybody who finds us online. I like this one a lot. Come eat with the new person at school or with the new person in the office. I love that right. Like I try to be inclusive. I think it's just like a part of like who I am. I know you're the same way I love that as well, that's why we get along.
Speaker 2:If you see someone that's hey, why don't you come along? Or hey, we're going out, you come with us In the cafeteria. Hey, you know, you sit with the new kid, right. I hope when I was a kid I was smart enough to know this. I'm not so sure that I was, but I definitely, as an adult, I try to be very intentional and very inclusive, and I think that comes with just working at a service agency.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, we are inclusive by nature, and if we're not, we're not successful. Yes, so hopefully my kids have learned that skill too. I believe they have. I'm sure your kids have as well.
Speaker 1:Did that one resonate with you? It sure did.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I thought that was great. I number 25, love your job or leave it. I know that's easy for me to say, but I do love my job right now I do. But for those listeners out out there, if you don't love your job, not not saying to quit today, but I'm saying get, get to that place that you love and love what you do yeah, and it'll show in your work and it and it will pay off ask for help.
Speaker 2:Number 26 ask for help when you need it. Big mike talked about this. Um, yes, he did. Bad news doesn't get better with age. Ask for help when you need it. Ask for help when you need it resonates with me because oftentimes we associate in the workplace. Asking for help is a sign of weakness. We do, especially when you're new right and I think we've talked plenty of times here about it actually being a sign of strength to recognize that you need help and the organization's paying you or counting on you to get something done.
Speaker 1:And think about this, and if you're floundering- yeah, but think about this If you're new, how would you know? How would you know? And that's when you're going to need the most help. But in many cases, the new employees, they don't want to ask for help because they feel that it's a sign of weakness. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying that there's a vulnerability, maybe yeah, there's a perception.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, they're praying me to do this. I don't know how to do it. They're going to be so upset when I tell them I don't need how to do it. Need help right now, if I think it's completely conceivable, and, uh, that you, someone that's listening, works in a place where, if they ask for help, they're going to be chastised or criticized by their boss, yes or a colleague who's annoyed right, right, yeah, and so I think it's completely reasonable that someone might be hesitant to ask for help at work.
Speaker 2:I just hope for those that are listening back to the earlier point about loving work your job.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That, if that's the case, that's motivation and a free get out of there. If you're working at a place that doesn't tolerate you asking questions or expressing a need for help, you're not working probably in the healthiest of cultures, and not all of us can quit our jobs tomorrow, but at least that should be a huge red flag.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That if you're afraid to ask for help or to show vulnerability at work, you're probably not working in the right place. Agreed.
Speaker 1:Agreed. Uh, my next one here is make someone's day happier, it will make you happier too, and you know that about me. I, I, I really do. I. I love seeing people smile. Yeah, and especially in stressful situations, you need to bring them up, and you don't always know where the person's coming from. You don't know in their personal life things that they're dealing with.
Speaker 2:What they're carrying with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what they're carrying, the weight they carry, and you need to be there for them. And in my mind a happier workplace, I mean it's more productive. And in my mind a happier workplace, I mean it's more productive, it doesn't cost you anything to be nice to people. That's it, yeah, that's it my last one.
Speaker 2:For a long time I was a jujitsu practitioner. I love jujitsu. Right, I actually got my blue belt. I was very proud of that accomplishment. But I learned when I was rolling in jujitsu that you need to keep your nails trimmed because you don't want to cut your opponent especially right, it's a huge party foul.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, huge party foul, it's the 37s. Polish your shoes, cut your nails and always keep a good look, right, yes, and so like in other words, and also the peppermint, like the last thing you want to do when you're in ju, keep your nails trim.
Speaker 1:I like how you just combined a couple there, but it's true, they're all gelling. They're all gelling together.
Speaker 2:They are, and you know what it is it's actually. You might think that cutting your nails and keeping fresh breath are about you. It's actually not about you. It's about the other person.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:In this case, the person that you're like physically rolling. It's funny. People judge you by your shoes, for sure.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how often people look at your shoes. I never realized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for whatever reason, shoes are the thing that we look at. We judge people by their shoes, I don't know, and they don't have to be expensive shoes, but I just think the point here is that, and they don't even have to be new, I just think they need to be clean. Yes, there must be some psychology of people in our brains about looking at footwear.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is, but it's a cliche because it's true. All right, what's your last one, buddy? My last one, and it's a very, very important one, is number 33. Take care of your health. Back through my leadership career.
Speaker 1:I remember there were some senior leaders that were older than me and they had come down with some serious illnesses and they it took that for them to change their mindset and they gave me that advice. Is, you know, take care of your health. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything. Um, I know, often at work, you know, I'll tell our, our cabinet members. Is, you know, make sure you're taking care of you, cause if you're not good, you're not bringing your best to help others and help students in the long run. Um, but it is so key to what we do and I and I think we all know when we fall out of our routine, whether you're a walker, runner, whatever diet. You know, all of us know when we fall out of those routines. But it really comes down to that because you need to bring your best self to work every day for the benefit of others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's that concept of self care for the caregiver. Yes, if you're responsible for taking care of other people, you have to take care of yourself first and like it's the analogy on the airplane that you put your air, your oxygen mask on before you help other people.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because if you pass out without oxygen, you can't help anybody yeah.
Speaker 1:Whatever I mean, like these are things that we know to be. That's a great comparison, right, Great comparison.
Speaker 2:All right, so that is our 10 collective golden life rules that resonate with us. It's always interesting to read somebody else's advice and sort of think about them.
Speaker 2:It is it would be interesting exercise for a leader out there. I might think of this too what are my 50 rules? I like that. Maybe we could challenge ourselves. Yeah, I mean, this would be an interesting thing and not to say you can't steal some of these. I mean, I imagine whoever wrote these took them from somebody else. Some of these things are so universal. There's something about capturing them in easy to understand phrases. Yes, that transcends the obviousness or the generalizability or the universality of them. That's it, like people might say well, that's obvious. Well, if it's so obvious, why didn't you say it? You know? I mean, yep, love it.
Speaker 1:well, thanks for sharing these dude, you are very well, great way to start 50 rules for season five 50 rules for season. Five happy anniversary, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Safe travels yes, thank you today I want you walking into your house with Three Little Birds.
Speaker 1:I'll play it on my Don't worry, tribute, yeah, isn't that it yeah About a. Thing. Yeah, yeah, three Little Birds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll do it. I don't think I should be singing. I like it.
Speaker 1:I really apologize. Next time we'll lip sync, alright, what do you say? We wrap this up? Alright? Peace and love. Alright, listeners, let's make it a great day and let's innovate the USA.
Speaker 2:Goodbye don't worry, you gonna get me a necklace. No, what would you?
Speaker 1:put on it, I don't know, like a skeletor, I thought.
Speaker 2:I was your he-man. What would you put on it? I don't know, like a skeleton, a skeleton, a skeleton. Yeah, I thought I was your He-Man. Merman, merman, yeah, merman.
Speaker 1:All right, see you, buddy.
