Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
We invite you to join us as we talk about the world of leadership during times of complexity.
Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S5:E8 The Art of Saying No for a Healthier Yes: Tips for A Healthier Work-Life Balance
This episode promises to enhance your understanding of how saying "no" can lead to more meaningful "yeses" and how, by teaching others to respect our boundaries, we foster healthier relationships.
We explore workplace cultures where boundaries often go overlooked and the importance of leaders recognizing and honoring these limits. Whether you're a leader, a people-pleaser, or someone who simply wants to maintain a balanced lifestyle, our conversation digs into the transformative power of boundaries for both personal well-being and organizational health. So, buckle up for a humorous yet deeply informative ride into the world of boundary setting!
We chat about actionable strategies for maintaining your well-being through effective boundary-setting, including the necessity of saying no and the ripple effects this has on leadership and team dynamics. Themes for the episode include:
• Recognizing boundaries as self-respect rather than rejection
• Importance of protecting personal time for well-being
• How saying no creates space for meaningful commitments
• The role of boundaries in fostering work-life harmony
• Addressing cultural expectations around self-prioritization
• Mutual respect through understanding each other's boundaries
• Encouraging a culture of healthy limits within organizations
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You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark, brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units. Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity. Now for your hosts, Greg and Mark.
Speaker 2:How you doing buddy Good yeah, I'm great. You look like bored right there.
Speaker 1:You okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I am here with you. Don't look too excited. No, really, I'm thrilled to be sitting here with you don't look don't look too excited. No, really, I'm thrilled to be sitting here with you you come here for abuse don't you, I really do. I mean, yeah, I get, I get humbled every time.
Speaker 3:It makes you stronger it does make me strong. It's like regina brett's advice from last episode whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Speaker 2:It makes you stronger, I make you stronger. Hey, so I had a crazy experience the other day.
Speaker 3:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:All right. So I was scheduled for a root canal. I had cracked one of my teeth I like having the almond snack and I cracked one of my molars. What time was your appointment? It was at tooth hurty Very good, Very good. I it was originally it was at Tooth Hurty. Very good, very good.
Speaker 3:I love how we crack each other up.
Speaker 2:It's good, it's good. So I go in for this appointment and my friend had said she gave me good advice Renee, she's like, she's like Greg, you really should take earbuds and, you know, like airpods or whatever, and listen to music. I completely forgot to do that. So I go in. It ended up being a two and a half hour process and they put in a like they they open your mouth and they they put over your face, like it's called a rubber dam, so they actually put a brace around that to the crack tooth, Okay, and then you have this rubber dam that goes around.
Speaker 3:So did anyone take a picture of you in this compromised position?
Speaker 2:So what's really funny is this. So going through this whole process and let me tell you a little bit about a root canal, because, listeners, you might not know about what this is, but just so you can be prepared, wear the AirPods if you go. But there is a fluid that's in your molars and they call it pulp. Okay, and because it cracked, that got infected.
Speaker 1:It created an infection.
Speaker 2:So they actually had to drill down, extract, just like they're taking oil out of the ground. They had to extract this pulp and then they put like a saline in and then they plug it back up. That is a root canal people. I thought it was disconnecting the tooth from the nerve. It all came down to the fluid that was in there. Interesting I mean I might've missed that part.
Speaker 3:But that's what I'm telling you I believe you.
Speaker 2:So I got this, this thing, over my whole face and my mouth.
Speaker 3:You're telling the whole, are you telling the tooth, the whole tooth that's good, that's good, yeah, so so two and a half hours.
Speaker 2:So I'm about an hour and a half into it and the nurse looks at me and I was getting uncomfortable and she's like you have to use the bathroom, don't you? So I'm like, yeah, so she goes, you know where it is. I'm like, yeah, so I had to walk through the lobby with my mouth open with this, because you can't take that off, of course.
Speaker 2:So right into the People are in the mirror checking out my tooth, my exposed tooth. It was crazy. Did you take a selfie? I should have. I didn't. That would have been a great one. What's the lesson learned?
Speaker 3:Lesson learned.
Speaker 1:What's the leadership?
Speaker 2:lesson, the leadership. Lesson Number one use the bathroom before you start the procedure and floss and floss.
Speaker 3:Take care of your teeth people Take care of your teeth. Sometimes, teeth issues aren't related to hygiene, they're related to genetics. Right, yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:You can't control that your teeth. Yeah, they're doing okay right. Yeah, they look good. Yeah, I try, yeah, I try. So root canal well listen.
Speaker 3:There's nothing more appropriate as an introduction to our topic today yes 15 sentences to set clear boundaries right so clearly. You have no boundaries with your teeth in our audience I don't, I put it right out there you just you, just you're uh, you're just putting it out there I. I am disappointed that there's no photo evidence of you with this contraption so literally would have been good and of all people to take a picture and send it to their friends. I would have expected you to do that. I should have done it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can always go back yeah, hopefully, not no, I hope, that was yeah, all right.
Speaker 3:So here this is. Uh, you found this.
Speaker 2:This is dr carolyn frost right, yep, and it's from strategic lifestyle design. That's her company, so she says 15 sentences to set clear boundaries without sounding rude right, because sometimes it's not what you say, but the way you say it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or this idea that by like um putting boundaries around your time or your efforts that you are somehow being disrespectful or um ungrateful or something like that.
Speaker 2:Well, I love I I'm thinking about this whole process and I love when you can identify. You know it's it's geek leadership here, but when you could set clear boundaries and set clear roles and responsibilities right, yeah, and also honor other people's boundaries.
Speaker 3:That's it Right. So I mean, like that's it. I like that. These are about setting boundaries for yourself from other people. But if you're in a leadership position, not only do you need to set boundaries for yourself, of course, but you have to honor the boundaries that other people have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know we've talked about this before, but I once worked in a culture in another organization where the emails just came at all hours of the day and the expectation was that you were checking and replying, and I work really hard not to do that here. Now I don't know that I can control that for everyone who works here, but at least for me. I really don't try to bug people on weekends and at night.
Speaker 2:I think that's great and I I try when you I think you model this well because you're not answering the emails between five and nine or you know I definitely try not to try not to, because when you do that, it shows that that's what you're. It might give the impression to your team that that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm looking for. And then people feel this oh my God, I just got an email from so-and-so, If he's emailing me or she's emailing me, then he must expect a response.
Speaker 2:All right, so go ahead. Number one All right, so number one is boundaries are a sign of self-respect, not a rejection of others.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and this is just her reframing it, right? Sometimes we think about boundaries being about the other person, right? She's saying no, no, they're about you. They're definitely about you. They're about you respecting yourself, your time and it don't worry. But back to regina brett, right? Yes, it's, stop worrying about what other people think. That's it.
Speaker 3:Saying no to others means saying yes to your well-being, so I mean, that's very similar right by prioritizing yourself yeah uh, in order to prioritize yourself, you might have to, um, deprioritize somebody else, and I think this is all about work-life balance. I don't think she's saying this during the workday, when you're being paid to be somewhere. I think this is like after hours, holidays, vacations, weekends, yeah, and we like to say work-life harmony. Yeah, oh, you don't say balance anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started saying that.
Speaker 3:Does that sound nice? Happiness and harmony.
Speaker 2:You know what? Saying that doesn't sound nice happiness and harmony.
Speaker 3:You know that's from willie wonka. Oh, willie wonka. Yeah, it's uh veruca's mom. She says it when they fight. They've been shelling chocolate balls for days. You're gonna be very unpopular around here, henry.
Speaker 2:All right number three, number three your time is valuable. Protect it like you would any important asset.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know it's funny. As people get older, they say that time is the thing that they wish they had more of yeah, time versus money kind of a thing, and it comes down to time. It's all about. It's about time, and yet we give it up so easily to other people.
Speaker 2:We do. We do Because I think that's some of the it's in our nature. I think it's educational leaders, it's in our nature as well.
Speaker 3:Number four you don't owe anyone an explanation for prioritizing your needs. I was talking to someone who works for a different organization and they were saying that, in order to take time off, they have to explain to their boss what they're doing with their time in order to see if it's like worth it.
Speaker 1:I'm like absolutely not. You're not doing that.
Speaker 3:No, you don't need to justify your oh, and you don't owe an explanation to use her words no for taking a vacation or for prioritizing your I mean like that's insane, I wouldn't want that, so that that number four resonated with me.
Speaker 2:For that one go ahead and you know what I think as a leader. Yeah, it's good to say, please don't. If they volunteer that, yeah, please, I don't need to know that's. That's your business. You know that's.
Speaker 3:Enjoy the time, yeah and I'm not going to make a value statement based on like if you want to stay at home and I'm just saying out of fairness, because they may have had a previous boss, that expected that.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally, I agree, go ahead okay number five a polite decline is better than an overcommitted. Yes, you'll resent. Yeah. What is it once you say that once you agree to something, you're in?
Speaker 3:Well, right, and it's better to under-promise over-deliver than over-promise under-deliver. If someone's counting on you. You said, yes, you're over-committed, you don't show up, or you show up half-hearted, right? No, gregory, is a complete sentence, and sometimes saying no is the simple and kindest response, right? I think it's similar to the above.
Speaker 1:Better to say no and preserve the relationship than say yes and do it poorly.
Speaker 2:And yes, in a previous episode, my year of yes. I definitely learned how to say no. So can we do Greg's year of no? We should try that. That would be a good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Most of it was saying no to boards, like being on boards.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there were just so many opportunities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, All right. Number seven you can support others without sacrificing your own peace.
Speaker 3:Similar to number two saying no to others means saying yes to your well-being Right. I think Dr Frost is a little redundant A touch, but not redundant in the negative sense. Redundant in the sense that there's a lot of overlap. But I do appreciate that they're written differently because they might resonate with different people. The same concept might resonate with you if it's written one way.
Speaker 2:Yeah For a name like Dr Frost. She is warm in her approach, Sorry All right Number eight.
Speaker 3:Saying I need this time for me isn't selfish, it's self-preservation. What do they say? Self-care for the caregiver? Put your oxygen mask on first. Insert cliche here about leadership stuff. I like that. I like that, but like I need this time. If you're not recharging your batteries, then how on earth are you going to be effective at work? If you're not letting your team recharge, then they're going to come in, you know, burned out. That's better to let them take the time to get recharged, rejuvenated and come back to work refreshed.
Speaker 3:Then to not take the time and be depleted.
Speaker 2:Show up with your best self, right? That's it, go ahead, all right. Number nine it's okay to say I need to think about that before committing this. Although it sounds simple, really is important. So let's just say you're in a given, it's a given afternoon, right? And somebody approaches you as a leader and says what do you think about this? I'd like to do this Instead of saying, as a leader, yes, so let's, let's sleep on that, let's think about it and let's, let's circle back tomorrow. Sometimes, in that time, you can really come to a better decision on what you're going to do, and if it's something you want to go through with, great, but at least you have that time to think about it. You don't always have to. Not everything is an urgency, right? Oh, definitely.
Speaker 3:That reminds me of a couple episodes we talked about how other people look at that concept entirely different. They say the worst thing you can say to somebody is maybe yes, because you leave it unresolved. It leave it unresolved. It's better to say no, but I might be able to do it later, yep. So I would say that, rather than saying I need to think about it, I would say it's probably better and probably harder to say you know, I'm not able to do that. However, if things change, I'm happy to commit yeah, but you're not committing. You're not committing. You're saying no, yeah, and you're saying it's possible that things could change, but it's a no yeah as opposed to well, let me think about it, cause sometimes people say let me think about it because they don't want to.
Speaker 2:They want to avoid the conflict of saying no, yeah, and then it's, it's kind of out there and the person's like, well gosh, when do I go back, Right? When do I go back to ask again? So I don't know day to circle back or within the next couple of days to circle back. Yeah, it can't just be hanging out there 10.
Speaker 3:It's not rude, gregory, to set limits. It's actually essential for long-term relationships, well, and I think that makes a lot of sense, right? Like back to the, to the topic boundaries right, like you can't be in somebody's space all the time. Right, right, and you know it's very similar to the above about work-life balance. Oh, definitely, what's that? Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Speaker 3:Yeah it does, and so long-term relationships at work totally important. It's why you need to get away, that's why you need to let your team get away. Long-term relationships like friends maybe a month goes by, you don't talk. Okay, well, I really miss. Yeah, I really miss Greg Koontz.
Speaker 2:I know I hear that all the time. Yeah, yeah, all right, number 11. Protecting your weekends sets a standard for work-life harmony. There it is, there's the word. Do you want me to do the Willy Wonka spiel again? Yes, do it again.
Speaker 3:Happiness and harmony. You're going to be very unpopular around here, Henry.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's here, henry. Yes, that's. It's nice how you do the tongue roll and you remember well, I do. You remember what the wife's name is?
Speaker 2:uh, no, henrietta oh, henrietta, henry and henrietta, oh, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3:Good, we've been shelling chocolate and he says shelling chocolate bars, because it was a nut factory where they shelled peanuts. Instead they're opening the chocolate bars yeah, love it. Say salt. What business you? In notes, I got a golden ticket. We have that movie memorized. Yes, uh, boundaries teach others how you wish to be treated. So I like that right. Like, in other words, treat me with respect. This is what I expect. It's reciprocal. Yeah, absolutely, this is how I wish to be treated, and there's there's nothing wrong with uhulating that.
Speaker 2:It's good stuff. Number 13, it's okay to say I can't right now, but let's reconnect soon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was like similar.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit redundant.
Speaker 3:No, but I like that better than I need to think about that. It is better Because of all the I can't right now is no, but let's reconnect soon. That's better than I need to think about it.
Speaker 1:That's that I agree.
Speaker 3:Number 13 captures the concept of no, rather than maybe I agree. All right Home stretch. Last two Remember, greg, you're not responsible for meeting everyone else's expectations. That's a tough one for leaders and people pleasers. Oh yes, I feel definitely like I'm accountable to everybody's expectations for myself? Oh, most definitely, and it's a definite Achilles heel, right it is.
Speaker 2:It is so really easy to say this, but let's repeat it again. So remember you are not responsible for meeting everyone's expectations. Yeah, but you better make sure you have your own expectations for yourself.
Speaker 3:Right, and probably people get run down and run in circles trying to meet everybody else's expectations, because they probably haven't thought about expectations for themselves about themselves and in my year of yes, that was my biggest issue.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of people to answer to. You were worried about pleasing everyone, and then what happened? Remember the, the, the the outcome was that I could only do things.
Speaker 3:Okay, it wasn't you know, I probably had a little time for yourself.
Speaker 2:That's it, that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we should revisit that. Yeah, that was interesting. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:What's the last one? Last one, number 15. A kind no day creates space for an enthusiastic yes tomorrow. Yeah, read that again. A kind no day, no, no today. No, oh, I'm sorry. A kind no today. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I just wanted to make sure that's very important.
Speaker 3:I was setting. I wanted to make sure we set boundaries here that I could, all right so you definitely set them.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Okay, Try it again. A kind thank you. Thanks for the permission. A kind no today creates space for an enthusiastic yes tomorrow.
Speaker 3:Well done. Yes, look at that. Now I'm praising you. Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 2:It's funny, because here it is no it's back to that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's better to say no.
Speaker 2:It is, and then it makes for a better yes tomorrow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it makes sense, it makes it sweeter when you finally do say yes, it's good stuff. Do you feel bad when someone asks you to get together socially, like to go out to dinner to get a drink, and you're just not feeling it? Do you feel bad saying no, or are you the one that always just says?
Speaker 2:oh, I'll do it. You know what I would say I'm always there, yeah, but and I'm working on this At one time I had that fear of missing out the FOMO. Yeah, I'm doing much better with that and prioritizing.
Speaker 2:And when you realize right that life goes on, those people are still going to be your friends even though you don't go Exactly Exactly and that sometimes you're just running around too much and then you just end up having a crash because it's just too much. So, yeah, it is. It's really important to be able to say no once in a while. Really is Well. Thank you, dr Frost is Well.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Dr Frost. Dr Frost, we appreciate you in the 15 sentences to set clear boundaries. Hopefully these are helpful for people as they negotiate at work with their subordinates and their superiors and their colleagues and their partners and their vendors and all the people that you're dealing with. Yes, all right. Well, I'm glad that your teeth are in better shape.
Speaker 2:The boundaries are all secure. Right now it looks like it Open up. Let me see.
Speaker 3:Looking good in there. Yeah, it's good. All right, what do you say? We wrap this up?
Speaker 2:All right listeners again, thanks for your support of Lead On with Greg and Mark. Please keep listening, tell your friends.
Speaker 3:Tell your family. Tell your family All right in the meantime let's make it a great day and let's what innovate the usa? Yeah, so enthusiastic. Let's go all right, bye-bye, ciao.
