Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
We invite you to join us as we talk about the world of leadership during times of complexity.
Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S5: E12 Navigating Success Behind the Scenes
Leadership isn't just about being in charge; it’s about recognizing the invaluable contributions of those behind the scenes. In this episode, we discuss how empowering team members, mentoring, sharing credit, and embracing transparency are key to successful leadership.
• Importance of recognizing unsung heroes
• Recap of the last episode on complaints
• Personal anecdote about a movie experience
• Empowering team members within a safe environment
• Significance of mentorship and sponsorship
• Promoting inclusivity and shared success
• Fostering transparency and authenticity in leadership
• The need for leaders to take responsibility for team failures
• Celebrating collective achievements rather than individual accolades
Check out all episodes of Lead On with Greg & Mark on your favorite podcast platform!
You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark, brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units. Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity. Now for your hosts, Greg and Mark.
Speaker 2:Was I bothering your tinea.
Speaker 3:No, I think you brought me joy. Did I bring you joy? Brought me joy? How was that? I would never complain about you.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good to know I'm so glad, said with such sincerity, I would never complain about you. Oh, that's good to know. I'm so glad. Said with such sincerity, that's good that brought me some closure.
Speaker 3:The last episode was all about complaints.
Speaker 1:It was about complaints. Do you want to role play me?
Speaker 3:complaining a little bit. Sure, do you have that still?
Speaker 1:out, here we go. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:I'm going to complain. Let's see if you can model the seven things from the last episode, greg.
Speaker 3:I'd like to bring something up.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, what is that?
Speaker 3:I don't like it when you clap and beatbox during the intros.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for bringing this up. Please know that your feelings matter.
Speaker 3:I'm waiting for my apology, part two.
Speaker 2:I'm very sorry that I disturbed your tinea.
Speaker 3:Will you please stop doing it.
Speaker 2:I can't promise you that, but I will think about it.
Speaker 3:You're coming tonight. You're supposed to ask me questions. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:So what is it that bothers you about my beatboxing?
Speaker 3:We need to practice this. Tell me more, tell me more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, help me understand. Should we set up a follow-up meeting to discuss this?
Speaker 3:You should. And then you know it says here from the last episode that you focus on progress. Yes, you have reduced the amount.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is progress.
Speaker 3:I just can't help myself. You put a microphone in front of you and you just, you just can't help yourself, just amazing. Yeah, hey. So, um, just a little magic behind the scenes here at lead on magic, magic behind the scenes of our off the off the recording conversations that we're having on on recording on on microphone.
Speaker 2:You know, uh, this is actually one of my favorite topics behind the scenes. And go ahead. I wanted to tell you a little bit about first of all, uh.
Speaker 3:I took uh ian yeah, my son ian and my brother steve to go see a complete unknown.
Speaker 2:So the new dylan movie all right, and I was thinking about that during the time, how important it is everything that goes into a movie production. Okay, not only that, but when you look at an artist, a musician like Bob Dylan, all of those supporting musicians, and it was just, it was a neat movie. It was a neat experience to be there, both with my brother but with my son, to go through that and have it. Timothy Chalamet.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He did fantastic. And what was great is his character, and I'm sorry I don't remember the Joan Baez character, but they was their actual voices, that they were saying I was impressed with that. It was a little bit Hollywood at times, but um, I I loved how he did music for himself. He didn't, he wasn't allowing society or people to tell him what kind of music to play. He played what he wanted and he wanted to go electric. And this is it's between the years 1961 and 1965.
Speaker 3:Is that where he plugs in?
Speaker 2:Where he plugs in, and it was. It keeps revisiting the mutual places that Newport Folk Festival. And that's where this all occurs in 1965. So it's neat how that all comes together. But I thought about so much about those supporting musicians and how great it sounded. You look at music how much those supporting musicians bring to the table to make a beautiful song.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they're often uncredited. They're often uncredited. You usually don't know who they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like yeah.
Speaker 2:So in this case, when we talk about leadership, you have all of these behind the scenes people.
Speaker 3:If you like stories about behind the scenes music, right, yes, a, there's a documentary on hbo right now, hbo max all about yacht rock. You know yacht rock like the doobie brothers, um toto, um michael mcdonald, like those bands, yep, steely, dan I keep fucking yeah, that's it right yeah.
Speaker 3:So, if you like that premise of the people that are behind the scenes, the unsung heroes that make it all work, as opposed to just the title artist, it's a short documentary all about how the same essential group of people, the small network of musicians, created an entire sound, and the people that were actually on the records are not necessarily the people that are on the name of the album ah so like um, the guys that are in toto were all studio musicians recording for for people like steely dan or the doobie brothers or michael jackson, quincy jones, like they're on the thriller album that makes sense
Speaker 3:right. But then they're like oh, if we're just doing these per diem jobs playing in a studio, why don't we just start our own band, kind of thing? Right. But you get a sense of like these five, six, seven, seven, 20 people, whatever it is, they're on like thousands of records and that's how. That's how Motown was too Right. The wrecking crew out in California, like the same person that's playing bass on like a thousand records, but you don't even know their name. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So I just become part of that house band. But it's so interesting because that's what brings the you know, that final product, that success yeah comes from so much, so much time. These behind the scenes people yeah, that's it you know.
Speaker 2:So you got an article here from jennifer reesey yeah, jennifer reesey, it goes back to 2016, so it goes a ways back. But there are five different elements that she talks about and I just wanted to go through each one and just kind of reflect on what we do as leaders to help embrace this, you know, and and highlight the important work they do. So the first one is empower your team, and we've talked about this many, many, many times on this podcast and looking at empowering, we don't really like the word empower, but the fact is is that they need to know that we are setting up an environment where it's a safe environment, where they have that ability to lead. You know they have. You know we're embracing the fact that you do it. This is why you were hired, yeah go and do it.
Speaker 2:Go and do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was in an interview the other day. I said we're hiring you because we trust you and we expect you to carry the water for this program in your bucket. There's a lot of people here to support you and there's a lot of people here to help you when you're down and help you problem solve. But we're hiring you to do and to lead this really important work.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that one. I think it's something we always talk about empowering, but in this case, let let the let the runners run, let the runners run, let the runners run. That's what they were hired to do.
Speaker 3:Let's do it. Be a mentor and a sponsor. So, behind the scenes, find those opportunities, she says, to advise as a mentor and to advocate as a sponsor. I like this one too, because this is the stuff that like this is like the coaching that happens. A lot of times.
Speaker 3:People think that, like executive coaching, all that stuff means that you're ineffective in your role. Nothing is usually further from the truth. Effective high performers usually surround themselves with coaches and mentors, right? They're usually hungry for feedback to get better, and so be that. For someone else who's hungry to move up, find your replacement and train them. Right. Find someone who's in a role that you know they're probably destined to outgrow and give them the coaching, the guidance, the feedback and, more importantly to this, like, the opportunities to go and do it and to prove their worth and give them the safety to fail. Give them the feedback to get better. She calls it a sponsor. The vernacular I use here is guardian angel. Like every project sort of needs an executive level guardian angel to get through the bureaucratic nonsense, right? So be that guardian angel, be that sponsor for someone in their work. Help somebody get through the nonsense of the machine, right? Uh, give them the opportunities and then facilitate their ability to get it done.
Speaker 2:And think about this. All of us had mentors in our life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and those people didn't care about getting credit.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. So we need to be, we have to be mentors to others.
Speaker 3:And then to her point, without worrying about getting credit for it.
Speaker 2:Yes, we don't need credit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the coaching that you give someone so that they go and they nail a board presentation or a sales presentation or whatever.
Speaker 2:It's for the betterment of the organization. It's for the betterment of the company.
Speaker 3:It's. Don't be the person that stands up and says, well, I talked to, nobody wants that. No, no, your success is the success of the person you're mentoring. Yes, right, correct, if your heart's in the right spot.
Speaker 2:But we all know narcissists who can't stand the idea of somebody else getting the credit we do and that is very counterproductive. It's weird and it's definitely it deflates any kind of good.
Speaker 3:Who wants to work for that person? No. Who wants to work for the attention hog?
Speaker 2:no agreed, agreed. You know what I mean. Yes, definitely go ahead. So the next is the third is be inclusive. So be generous. When thanking and giving credit to your staff, the rule should be to say we, not I. I like this a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that, and I think this is also back to that point about not being an narcissist. So if you have the great fortune of sharing good news, your organization gets a grant, you get a new contract, you reach a milestone, you complete a major project under budget on time, I think the counsel here is that when you get up to talk about that accomplishment, you don't say I secured a new grant, I closed a sales deal, I secured a new client. That I is like it. It's going to be the only thing.
Speaker 2:the people that are listening here right and it's going to put them off yes, they won't even hear what it is that you did because they're going to be like oh I, you did, you did that.
Speaker 3:No, especially if you're the leader, yes, right, if you're in charge and you're saying I, I think it's a real insight into that person's psyche and their narcissism and the thing that drives them that they need the attention. And how demotivating for the team who did the work to hear someone above them take credit for it yes, right, especially when it was a team project.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, multiple people involved, multiple we secured a new, we secured a grant.
Speaker 3:Uh, and, as the leader, even if you played a role in it, everybody expects that you're the leader. We're not there to celebrate you. We're there to celebrate the other people. Yes, it's not about you, right? It's not about you. The organization having success itself is the metric that people will evaluate you on. The fact that other people are thriving is a reflection of your leadership. You don't need to say it.
Speaker 2:Right, I couldn't agree more. And I was just thinking about you with a t-shirt. It's not about me, it's not about me, it's about my team, it's about my organization. And you do, you do, live it, you walk it. I appreciate that. You walk the walk. All one there Go to battle on their behalf. I thought you'd love this one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the best technique for developing loyalty is to be their best defense, to stand behind them when people screw up, when people make mistakes, when people, whether it's honest, have their back right, when something bad happens. If you're the leader, take the heat. That's why you get paid more, that's why you have a better title. Take the heat, have private conversations, but in front of the board, in front of the bosses, it's you. You know there was a.
Speaker 3:There is a famous baseball guy, joe Torre coached the Dodgers, coached the Yankees yes, incredibly winning record as a baseball manager. And when he was the manager of the Yankees, he often would talk about this concept. He would say, when things were going well at the press conference, it was easy. He'd get up and he would never take the credit. He would never say, well, the Yankees are winning because of me as the manager. He would give the credit to the owner and the players, the players and the owner. And when things were going poorly, when the Yankees would have those rare streaks, you know where they were not doing well, he always took the heat. It's great.
Speaker 2:He always took the heat.
Speaker 3:He never took the credit and he always took the heat, and I think that's like, essentially what these five things are saying Be the manager who dishes out the praise, and be the manager who takes the heat and owns it. Yes, and owns it.
Speaker 2:Yes, the last one, I I like a lot. So the fifth is always be transparent. Now I'm going to tell our listeners I'm just tired of the word transparent and transparent, so we say it so much thank you for being transparent about that I was very transparent about yeah, my issues with transparent, but I like the word authentic so you're not saying you have an issue with transparency.
Speaker 3:You're saying you have an issue with the word.
Speaker 2:I just think over you, I think we've overused it I mean we've all sat in those meetings where we do. We do take a bet on how many times we say a certain word transparency is one of the meeting bingo meeting bingo we need to pivot, yes, pivot, yes, exactly we need to be, we need to um circle back.
Speaker 3:Yes, right, like I'm just trying to think of all the jargon. Oh my gosh, yeah, we should do an episode on meeting jargon. I would love that, all right. Well, this is one of the many memes out there transparency.
Speaker 2:For the last couple years it's been used. Well. We're going to be transparent on this? Well, I would hope so. Yeah, you know, because we want to be truthful in what we come. Yeah, the opposite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the opposite is like a cover-up, right, Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:So I like the term authentic and in this it does talk about that word. It says transparent and honest. I like the authentic piece when you stand up in front of a group of people own the good, own the bad, put it right out there. Be authentic when it comes to budgets, things like like that. Again, they we always talk about being transparent and putting those kinds of things out there, but it is. It is really an important skill, uh, to do that. When you're hiding something it's going to be eventually, it's going to it's going to make a huge problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is this is really about trust.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh yeah, oh yeah. Trust with your board, trust with your leadership.
Speaker 3:Mutually truthful, mutually transparent relationship is going to be the one that probably matures, that's a good way of looking at it, yeah. I mean and she also says you know things here that truth telling and being transparent the other side to that is being a good listener.
Speaker 3:Yep, if you're a good listener, then you're increasing the likelihood that people will tell you things, as opposed to people. If I, if I know you're not going to listen to me, right? Um, I'm probably going to learn pretty quickly. It's not worth telling you anything, right? I'm not going to be honest and truthful with you if I don't believe it's going to go anywhere. So, open dialogue, open dialogue, open, honest, two-way dialogue. And then she also just talks about the need to be expeditious.
Speaker 3:If there's a problem, tell the person, don't ignore it. Hope is not a strategy, right? Hoping that a problem goes away is not a strategy for eradicating the problem over the long term. Right, we've talked in previous episodes about some problems need to be ignored. But if you continue to ignore the problem and it continues to stay and then obviously you have to address it I think the ignoring of the problem or avoiding of the problem is only a short-term strategy and if the problem persists, it's going to further come back. Then you got to deal with it, right, exactly. So she gave us these five things. I think they're interesting.
Speaker 3:And you know I like this article article because it I think it harkens back. You like that Harkens back. It harkens back to episodes that we've had over the years. These are just concepts that I think are universally true, Like there's nothing salacious, there's nothing controversial here. I think these are just like tried and true universal truths about leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they present themselves all the time they do and it's it's good to revisit these as well. You know we've talked about that whole piece of just revisiting. So yeah, great skill there. All right, so we got the five things from Jen Recy. Thank you, jen.
Speaker 3:Gregory. So for the last three or four episodes we've been trying out new clothing Outros.
Speaker 1:Outros thanks.
Speaker 3:It used to be. What was it?
Speaker 2:Make it a great day.
Speaker 3:Make it a great day and innovate across the USA, right, of course. How funny that I forgot.
Speaker 2:So, we've been trying new ones. It must not have been that good.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think it was.
Speaker 3:I'd like to complain about our outros.
Speaker 2:Come on, they're getting better, they're getting better.
Speaker 3:They're getting something. Are you ready? I'm ready, all right, so what do?
Speaker 2:you say we wrap this up. Okay, we'll wrap it up. Go ahead, buddy. Thanks for tuning in to Logam, where leadership lessons are free, but the puns are priceless.
Speaker 3:That should have been a pun. That's a missed opportunity for a pun about a pun. All right, get out of here. All right, let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Goodbye everybody, Bye-bye.
Speaker 3:Let's go, the Punisher, the Punisher of puns.
