S6: E6 From Roller Rinks To 11 Thinking Traps

A roller rink decal sparks a cascade of memories... backward skating for Greg and arcades for Mark... before we steer into a surprisingly timely question: what stories from the 80s still shape how we think today?

Then we flip the mirror. Using the 11 cognitive distortions as a roadmap, we unpack the thinking traps that quietly bend reality: all-or-nothing thinking, mind reading, mental filtering, discounting the positive, magnification and minimization, emotional reasoning, catastrophizing, and personalization. We connect these patterns to our built-in negativity bias, explain why they feel so credible in the moment, and show how they sabotage performance, parenting, and leadership. 

If you enjoyed the ride, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves 80s deep cuts, and leave a quick review to help more listeners find us. What’s your most quotable 80s line.. and which thinking trap do you want to retire this week?

Check out all episodes of Lead On with Greg & Mark on your favorite podcast platform!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Everyone, it's an all skate. No whips. I love this. I'm looking at the decal here. Yeah. And it's uh people roller skating. That's what made me think of that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I could tell you the last time I went roller skating, it was a birthday party with one of my kids, and I got yelled at three times. By the people that worked there? Yeah. One was for wearing a hat. You can't wear a hat in a roller rank? And this one you could in a wolf's car. Why would that be? I don't know. Maybe because you can't see if it goes off. And then somebody it's a it's a reliability. Oh, I didn't even think of that. So there was that. I was skating backwards. They didn't like that. There was a sp special part where they said anybody who can his advanced, like yours truly. Yeah. Who could go, yeah, everybody skates backwards for one. So my brother Stevie and I were out there skating backwards. Uh so anyway, I got yelled at because it wasn't the designated time to skate backwards. And then I got yelled at because I did a whip. Where you sort of swing the person around? Yeah, you get a whole line of people. Yeah, and the last person goes. The person at the end who goes flying. I love that. Yeah, it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Uh when I was a kid in Love Town, we go to Roller Rama or we go to Palace in the Northeast. But I wasn't I I I could skate, but I was definitely I was not a I am not a coordinated person. I was not a coordinated kid. So like could I put the skates on and stumble around? Absolutely. Was it something that gave me great anxiety? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

We've got a lot of height, so there's a lot of ways to fall a lot more to fall down.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, but you know, there's like a lot of skaters and stuff, like hockey players that are big like me, and they move around just fine. I think it's just more about me. I was not, and I'm not really that athletically gifted. And so a lot of people would love to skate, and people would say, Oh, let's go because skating was big in the 80s, right? Like we and I would always dread it. I was like, oh, I would spend most of my time in my skates on the carpet playing video games, you know? Do you know what I'm talking about? Rather than on the actual rink.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Oh, yeah, exactly. They always had great video games there at the Roller Rinks.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, and there was always a concession stand. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yeah. All right. So I have more questions. Are you ready for it? This is this is our second list of questions for Dr. Mark Hoffman.

Anxiety On Wheels And Arcade Escapes

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Uh and these are like the others, they're not like these aren't like there's an answer.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Uh these are questions for you. Got it. All right. And just how your opinion on these 80s questions. Uh so here we go. Uh I have one, two, three, I have five for you. Go ahead. First is was the A team actually good, or were we just eight years old? Was the T so the TV show. Was the TV show actually? Actually, good, or were we just eight and we didn't know any better?

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Could it be both? I think we were eight and didn't know any better, and it was great. It could be both. It was great to an eight-year-old. I love it when a plan comes together. I love it when a plan. Howl and mad murdock, B A Barack is face. Oh, the the characters. Hannibal. Um, I think it was good. And I think we were eight.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Right. So that's a yes and a yes. I say yes, and uh I mean if you have a problem. And if you can find them. Oh, maybe you can.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

So cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah. So cool. Yeah, and nobody ever died. They always made sure that the bullets were in front of the jeeps that they were shooting at, and then it flipped over, and then they always cut back to them crawling out alive.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Always. No one ever died on that show. No one ever got shot. These crack military specialists couldn't hit anybody if they tried. Yeah. It was like But that wasn't the point. The point was action for action sake, gratuitous action.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

It was. And they were always fighting for good. Yes. For a good cause.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Correct. And they were they were incorrectly charged with crimes they didn't commit. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Nice quote there. Something like that. You're gonna love this next one. Speaking of quotes, you're gonna love this next one. Most quotable 80s movie Back to the Future, The Princess Bride, or Ghostbusters. Oh, it's gotta be the Princess Bride, right? Oh yeah. Inconceivable. I don't think it means what you think it means. No more rhymes now I mean it.

Launching The 80s Question Round

SPEAKER_01 4:39

My name is Enigamantoya. Anybody want to beat that? You killed my father? But I perto died. Isn't that it? Something like that? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

My name is Eniga Montoya. Yeah. You kill my father. Prepared to die. Yeah. All right. Next one. Best TV dad of the 80s. And defend your choice. Why would you choose that person?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Best TV dad of the 80s. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

God, there's so many choices. There really are. Was it family ties because he was so understanding? Was it uh growing pains for the same reason? I mean, all the 80s dads were understanding. They were, it was television telling dads to calm down, stop yelling and beating your kids. You know what? There was a message there. There definitely was. Danny Tanner, right? Like none of the dads, unless it was Dan Arnold, right, on The Wonder Years. Oh, yeah. But he never beat Kevin or anything like that. But he was just grumpy. Go to work. I bust my hump. But there was a genuine sort of love of his family. I'm going to go with Dan Arnold from The Wonder Years. I I like it.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I like it's different than I thought you would say, but I get it.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, and he's like the dark horse. He's unreal. And it's also like a legitimate thing. The guy goes to work, he busts his hump, right? And then he comes home and he just wants to relax. And his big thing is supporting his family. Yeah, he wasn't doing that for himself.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Right. There's no denying.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

I remember when Kevin goes to work with his dad and he sees how poorly he's treated. He had a do found respect for why his dad was so grumpy when he got home. Do you remember that episode? I don't remember that episode. But it was enlightening. They're like, why is he always grumpy? And then as a part of an assignment for school, it was go to work with your parent day. And he saw how poorly his boss his dad's boss and colleagues treated his dad.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, great selection. I I wouldn't have even thought of that. So awesome. Next one. What 80s toy would instantly sell out if relaunched today? Oh, Cabbage Patch Kids. Cabbage Patch. I thought you were going to say that.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Yeah, Teddy Ruxpin, Cabbage Patch Kids, He-Man. Yeah, He-Man was awesome. Yeah, G.I. Joe's. They probably still have G.I. Joes.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Transformers. I forgot to mention that in an earlier episode. I love Transformers. Yeah. More than BCI. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Were you an Autobot or a Decepticon?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

It depended on the day.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, I was more of a Decepticon.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

You were yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah. Yeah. I really like the But I it was so cool. Like I saw on uh Instagram the other day the cassette one that folds out. It's a boom box that turns into the the uh the transformer and then his name was um the cassette that comes out.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yeah, it was a boombox. Was he star screamer? Didn't he turn into a gym? Sound wave, he was sound wave. Sound wave. Sound wave, sound wave. That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

That's it. All right. And then uh last question. Go ahead. This is interesting. What eighties event do you remember as culturally defining? They do have some. I don't know if you want some of these examples.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

80s event that was culturally defining. Yes. Uh the Challenger exploding, Tiananmen Square. That's one of them. Okay. Go ahead. Um follow the Berlin Wall. Definitely. Live Aid. Live Aid.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

My cousin my cousin Chris was there at Live Aid. Really? In Philly. So jealous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

I think all those things are culturally defined.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

People talk about them. Yeah. So that that that do you like the questions? I like them.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

They're great conversations. Those would be great over dinner with friends. Like if you're sort of like, oh, what are we going to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

So all right.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Greg, I got an article here from theartofmanliness.com. Interesting title. This is from 2021, though it sort of stuck out to me. It's called The 11 Cognitive Distortions That Are Making You a Miserable SOB. Man, Man, Man Le Man Man Man Man Le. So this is sort of like if you if if you're if you're grumpy, if you feel like the world's against you, if you feel like everything you see is through a negative lens, this is the mirror that you should hold up and ask yourself, am I doing these things or is the world really against me? So, like, for example, let me give you the first one.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

So, are you actually a victim? Correct.

Was The A-Team Actually Good

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Is it your outlook? Yeah, or is it your mindset? Yes. Is the world actually out to get you, or is your mindset such that no matter what happens, you think it is? I like this. So, like the first one, for example, we're not going to go through all eleven, but like um, all or nothing thinking. This is when you think in black or white, right? I'll never write the the example the author of The Art of Animalist gives is if I never write a bestselling book, I'm a failure. And then of course we know that like writing a book or even starting a book is the actual accomplishment. It's not writing a bestseller. You're not a failure if you write a book and it's not a bestseller. Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

It's the part of writing the book. That's the accomplishment of writing a book.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

If I write a song and no one hears it, I'm a failure. If I write a song and it's not number one, I'm a failure. Right. If I apply for a job and I don't get it, I'm a failure.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Speaking of that, music industry, because we have this in Nashville, uh, when we talked to, it was a producer uh from uh one of the record companies, uh he talked about how all the music that gets sent to him every day, it's something like 165,000 new songs every day. I believe it. And then imagine with AI now. And then the ones who get selected are 99, it's it's up to 99 point, you know, it's point zero zero something as far as what gets selected.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Those people are not failures that don't get selected.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah. Yeah. So so uh yeah, I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

I love that. And like if we if we jump around a little bit, maybe you want to pick in, but like, you know, mind reading, right? I like this one. Number five. You jump, he says, you jump to conclusions about how others are thinking and feeling without any clear evidence. You just make an assumption, oh, that person hates me, oh that person's out to get me, oh that person's my enemy, oh that person thinks I'm dumb, or that person's not working with me. Rather than just saying, you know, well, maybe that person's not even thinking about you. Right. Instead of asking, I'm just gonna assume I'm gonna read your mind and say, okay, I know that Greg's out to get me.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

This one I like mental filtering. Go ahead. You filter out or ignore the positives and focus entirely on the negatives. Your mind is like Velcro for the negative and Teflon for the positive. I think that's sometimes again, this is outlook. You have a negative outlook on things, those you're gonna attract negative things, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and and a lot of times, you know, you look at even you know, you look at it any career, what it whatever it may be, those negatives sometimes stick out and you forget about all those positives that are.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yeah, do you lie awake at night thinking about the great things you did or the mistakes you made?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Oh, definitely the mistakes.

Most Quotable 80s Films

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Right. That's the mental filtering I think they're talking about. Like your brain is really good at rehashing the negative things. And that's actually I uh when I've looked at into that one, I think it's Darwinian actually. Like we survive because we are alert to things that can hurt us. And so your brain is trained to find things that are hurting you or that could hurt you, like a snake in the woods or a lion in the forest or in the book in the jungle, whatever. And so I because we don't have those real threats like we used to to the same degree, your brain is still focusing on the negatives, not the positives. And so all the things that could hurt you, you perseverate on.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yes.

unknown 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah, there's this one, discounting the positive. You tell yourself your positive qualities and successes don't count. So um, yeah, that presentation went well. Someone says, Oh, Greg, you did a great job in that presentation. Uh and so instead of saying thank you, it's well, my boss didn't say that. Right. You know what I mean? Like you're already in that frame of mind in the frame of mind that no matter what anybody says to you, it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yep. Yep. I like this one, uh, number seven there. Magnification and minimization. Uh, you exaggerate the negativity in the situation and minimize the positives. So seeing the world through a lens that magnifies the negative and minimize the positive, a lens of consistent pessimism. Did you ever have one of those mornings where you wake up and you know it's going to be a bad day? Like you have your mindset is negative for that day. Yeah, and then you just attract that the whole day.

Best TV Dad Of The Era

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah. Um, I think it's the opposite too, with positivity, right? Like if you're like, oh, it's fine. You know, like I mean, and I think the world's about what, moderation? Like if you go, I've it's probably there's probably an article out there about the equally destructive power of not counting for the negative things and only being positive.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, right. Well, we I was told about, you know, we talk about journaling all the time. And I know Mark, Mark, you and I, we we s I I I know I struggle with this. Well, it doesn't resonate with me. What they say to do is a gratitude journal the night right before you go to bed. And then that way you wake up more thinking more of the positives.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Like a reset.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

It sounds cheesy, but it kind of makes sense because you're you're kind of training your brain about the all the good things happening. So how about emotional reasoning? Go ahead and tell me it involves reasoning from how you feel. I feel like an idiot, so I must be one, or I feel hopeless, so things are never going to get better.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah, or if I feel bad, something must be wrong, as opposed to feeling bad as a natural emotion.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Just an emotion, it's just an emotion. It's just an emotion, right? You can't feel good if you've never felt bad. It's not your identity. Correct. And that's what they're saying here. Like sometimes people feel that their emotion is their identity.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, you know, I catastrophize, which is on one of these number six, it says you make arbitrary and disturbing predictions about the future. Um, you make illogical jumps about uh what's going to happen to you because of something. It's this idea that because something went sideways, the world's ending.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Okay, so all right, I missed a meeting, I'm gonna get fired. That's not a logical conclusion unless you've missed every meeting for the last five years and you're on a performance improvement plan for missing meetings. Right. Um, I lost this customer, they're going with another solution, I'm going to get fired, or my business is going to close. Well, that's not that's not true. Or a competitor opened up across the street, I'm gonna go out of business. That's not true necessarily, right? Right. And so I wonder, but like, isn't there also some healthiness to catastrophizing into some of these things? Like, if you don't see the threats for what they could be, you might not make adjustments to your behaviors to control for that possible outcome.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

I'm with you on that. And I actually see a lot of positives in this thinking about the worst because we as parents do this and we don't even realize we do, but it's from that first second that the baby's born. We're thinking, what is the worst case scenario? Like, oh my gosh, RSV and all these different things that could happen as is the baby premature, is you know, of course, all those kinds of things. That continues and it magnifies, it gets it, you know, it it gets it snowballs.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, and it's interesting because the more kids you have, I mean, I only have two kids, but you definitely are more cautious with your first than your second. At least in my in my experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Oh, definitely the case. Definitely the case.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Because you realize that like the world doesn't end with the first scraped knee. Yep. The world doesn't end with the first, you know, blown out diaper. The world doesn't end with the first sleepless night. Right. You sort of you know, you're not a terrible parent.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, and there were times I know if like my son was calling him like, oh boy, if I know he was out driving, yeah, you've somewhere I'm like, and a lot of times it was. Dad, I have a flat tire.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

But you're thinking I got pulled over, I got in an accident.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, and that would happen too. I mean registration, whatever that happens.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Yeah, there's nothing worse though, right? Than that's the feeling of seeing your kids are out and the phone rings and it's them. Yeah. I immediately jumped to the worst. Yeah. And that's what we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Exactly. So in a lot of cases, we have worse things in our minds. So when they actually do something like this, oh, it's only a flat tire.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

You're like, oh thank God, it's just a flat tire. Because it was you you don't expect your kid to call you 11 30 at night, right? No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

It's the worst feeling in the world. So honestly, I think uh to that in that respect, I think it helps that you've helped me in that way. Uh I know you said that you'd see it as a negative, but I think that it helps other people.

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SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah, it's it's again, I think there's positive negatives to both these things, but I am definitely guilty of catastrophizing. I don't know that I I don't know that I emote it here at work. I probably do to some degree, but it's definitely like when I'm at home in the safe space of my house, I definitely catastrophize about everything.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Aaron Powell I'd say the only negative would be if it takes away from a good outcome. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So if like if you're c uh catastrophizing something and then but there's actually there was already a good outcome, it can take away from the good outcome. That's the only that's the only caution I would have there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Sure. And I maintain that catastrophizing gives you the ability to foreshadow what could happen. Yes. And it gives you the ability and the runway to prevent it from happening. If you're blind to the consequences of uh the world, then probably the worst outcome might actually happen a little bit more easier than if you're controlling for them and working against them.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yep. Agreed. Just a thought. Agreed. Uh here's another one. Personalization and blame. This is number 11. You blame yourself for something you weren't entirely responsible for.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Now we do this a lot.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I think we do this a lot just because of the nature of our jobs. We own the the good, we own the bad. Now the good, bad, and the ugly. We own it all.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah. Somebody messes up.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah. But there's sometimes where, okay, we're we're also associated with it because it's our organization, but it's not necessarily your fault.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, I understand that. My self-worth sometimes is defined by the success or failures of the organization I lead. Yes. To your point, I'm I'm saying what you're saying. I'm agreeing with you.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

The opposite of this is called the fatal attribution error. So the opposite of this is fatal attribution error, which is that when things go right, someone with a fatal attribution error believes it's because of their skill and adeptness at making it happen. And when things go wrong, the person with the fatal attribution error believes it's because other people's incompetence didn't inhibit you from being successful. It's the opposite of this. Yes. You see what I'm saying? I do, I do. And they're equally dangerous to assign your own self-worth based on the success and failure of the organization, and or to come up with reasons why uh everything you do is right and everything other people do is wrong. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I love that. So I I really like how they sum up this article, Mark. This is great. Quit being a miserable SOB. Yeah. I think this is great. And it talks about that that you need the first step is just recognizing that. Sure. So any of these things that we just went through, listeners, recognizing that that might be an issue that you're you're dealing with. Um, the second step is to challenge your negative thought patterns. Yeah. So you need to change, we're saying here, what the article is saying, change your mindset.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah. And you can do that by asking yourself these questions. I think you're smart enough to say, okay, yeah, I'm catastrophizing. And I needed someone to point this out to me that yeah, I'm making everything sound like it's the end of the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

I like this too. Look for the good in your life and then others. Then let it really marinate in your mind. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Yeah. All right. So you like these 11 things? Art of manliness. I really do.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

December 2nd 2021, written by Brett. Yeah. The 11 cognitive distortions that are making you a miserable SOB.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, I'm going to find the ones that are the cognitive fallacies that are um making you uh unsuccessful as well. There's there to my point about the fatal attribution error, there are the opposites of all these as well. It's like living your life in the middle. Yeah.

unknown 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

All right. I love it. All right. So what do we think? So we want to go back to our little techno?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

I I think we're going to go. So this next one. Wasn't techno, really. The first one was the roller skating 70s vibe kind of thing or 80s vibe. This next one, um, this is another one that you put together. Go ahead. Um, let's see what it sounds like. Here we go.

Defining Events Of The 80s

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I asked for 80 synthwave. Is that what it was? Yeah. Oh no, this is different.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

This sounds like a hair band.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah, that I said that this is um Oh, it says rock, grind, and alternative rock. Yeah, this isn't that hair. This isn't the the synth wave. Let's see what happens. Intro is too long. Here we go. It struggles with the lyrics. I don't like this one. All right, this one gets this one gets trashed. All right. What do you say we wrap it up? Let's wrap it up.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Please love. Please love. Break it mark out.